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 The rotary transformer project
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erfinder
New Member



26 Posts

Posted - February 24 2013 :  05:46:00  Show Profile  Send erfinder a Yahoo! Message Send erfinder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TinMan

@EF
No -i have never seen a clean square wave being generated from any brushed motor setup?
This sounds quite interesting,do you have a video on it?



Yeah..I got a video.. its not a brushed motor setup I'm specifically referring to here, the question was related to any of your test rigs.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Let me know what you think.

Regards
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 24 2013 :  08:00:45  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Riding the wave's
The video has the information in it.
But basicly we have managed to place the high voltage pulses from the secondary coil ontop of the half wave pulsed AC.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - February 25 2013 :  01:28:05  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's a crazy wave form you got there. Can't wait to see what is next. "D"
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 25 2013 :  05:51:41  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by erfinder

quote:
Originally posted by TinMan

@EF
No -i have never seen a clean square wave being generated from any brushed motor setup?
This sounds quite interesting,do you have a video on it?



Yeah..I got a video.. its not a brushed motor setup I'm specifically referring to here, the question was related to any of your test rigs.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Let me know what you think.

Regards


Yes i know why you have a square wave now.
Your setup looks close to my L.A.G setup ,but with six coils and seperate cores for each coil.
Now the square wave.
This is due to you haveing a FWBR on the output,then going to a cap.
When the cap is discharged,the voltage accross your coils is limited by the resistance of the cap-and the potential difference in voltage between cap and coil output.
You will also have atleast a 1.2 volt drop across the FWBR.
As you will note-the wave starts to change as the cap voltage builds up.
This is because the coil voltage can now start to exceed that of the FWBR,and a saw tooth wave is generated.Once voltage is high enough in the cap-this allows the coils(with there limited current)to rise further in voltage-this then starts to produce a sine wave.

Try a couple of different value resistors as the load insted of the cap.
I would start with a 22ohm resistor-going on how much time it took to charge that small cap,i would think that there isnt much current there.
Then it is just a matter of raising or lowering the resistor value until you get your square wave formation.
This will also depend on the rpm of the rotor aswell.
Let me know how you go.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 25 2013 :  09:01:58  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here are the test results with a load on the motor,and PWM used on input-as seen in video above.
The load is the same fan blade used in the last few load test.

RPM-1386-lower due to a 95% pulse width.
Volts-19.03
Amp's-1.062
Watts-20.17
At this point we should note that all RPMs per watt measurements in previous post on calculations are watt minute's-as the RPM's are in minute's.

RPMs per watt minute = 68.71

Now if we look at the first test video on the standard house fan,you will see we had these result's
RPM-1107
Watts-33.34.
RPMs per watt minutes = 33.2.

So now to find out the efficiency of the rotary transformer over the standard house fan for driving the same load, we simply divide 68.71 by 33.20 x 100
This gives us 206.95%
so 33.2 being 100% of the house fan efficiency,we then subtract that from the 206.95%-and we are left with 106.95%.
So the rotary generator is 106.95% more efficient than the house fan motor at driveing that fan.
What we dont know for sure is what the efficiency rateing of the house fan motor is?


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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erfinder
New Member



26 Posts

Posted - February 25 2013 :  09:40:27  Show Profile  Send erfinder a Yahoo! Message Send erfinder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TinMan

Yes i know why you have a square wave now.
Your setup looks close to my L.A.G setup ,but with six coils and seperate cores for each coil.
Now the square wave.
This is due to you haveing a FWBR on the output,then going to a cap.
When the cap is discharged,the voltage accross your coils is limited by the resistance of the cap-and the potential difference in voltage between cap and coil output.
You will also have atleast a 1.2 volt drop across the FWBR.
As you will note-the wave starts to change as the cap voltage builds up.
This is because the coil voltage can now start to exceed that of the FWBR,and a saw tooth wave is generated.Once voltage is high enough in the cap-this allows the coils(with there limited current)to rise further in voltage-this then starts to produce a sine wave.

Try a couple of different value resistors as the load insted of the cap.
I would start with a 22ohm resistor-going on how much time it took to charge that small cap,i would think that there isnt much current there.
Then it is just a matter of raising or lowering the resistor value until you get your square wave formation.
This will also depend on the rpm of the rotor aswell.
Let me know how you go.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69



Hello Tinman,

Yes the layout is similar to the lag, however, I would like to think that the rig I have built has more in common with the motor that Tesla patented in 1888. 381,986 Electro Magnetic Motor.

You must be logged in to see this link.

I say this because like Tesla's machine, my device doesn't use pole pieces, and rotor coil interaction takes place at the equatorial plane of the coils. As far as the separate cores go, I was just too lazy to come up with a core concept for placing all the coils on a common closed core. My device is operated as a generator only, the inductance and resistance are both too high for it to function as a motor without needing insanely high input voltages. If I added 6 motor coils, and pole pieces, I could turn this into a kick ass LAG, one which I'm sure you would be proud of. This isn't what I want to do...the generator is special, and I'm trying to figure out why it behaves like it does.

You must be logged in to see this link.

I built the simplified LAG and got the results that you demonstrated.

Orthogonal oriented coils are as old as dirt, and offer many advantages over conventional setups, in both motors and generators. I found that they weren't adopted as the standard owing to how complicated and expensive winding coils in this manner is. I personally like how in motors with orthogonal coils; TDC is the location of maximum torque.

Regarding your analysis of my setup there are some points that I can agree with and others where we are going to have to discuss the setup further...this will be necessary because of the nature of how the coils are wound, connected, and inner connected. The coil configuration isn't what you think it is....the coils are connected in a manner that I haven't seen discussed anywhere before. If its connected any other way, I don't get the square waves! Look again at the wave when it goes from sine to square and back to sine...it's not a smooth transition....This generator is designed to produce odd harmonics, odd harmonics are the mechanism I'm trying to use to generate the square waves.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Regards

Edited by - erfinder on February 25 2013 10:08:12
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 28 2013 :  06:50:05  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed one of those setups of tesla's looks like the L.A.G
disconect two coils that are opposite each other,and use them as the gen coils-then add a trigger winding to the remaining two coils and use those as the run-trigger coils.

Those were enjoyable read's erfinder.
Im looking forward to seeing your finished device.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 02 2013 :  10:37:43  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have started calibrating a generator as a load base to accuratly measure the efficiency of the rotary transformer.
The chart below shows the first test graph using a standard 24 volt dc PM motor as the prime mover.
The first P/out load was a 47 ohm 10 watt resistor.
Two more graphs will be charted.
The next test will have a 23.6 ohm 20 watt resistor as the load-then the last will be a 15 ohm 20 watt resistor.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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rheandros
New Member



Germany
15 Posts

Posted - April 21 2013 :  05:25:49  Show Profile Send rheandros a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Tinman,
the transformer is not very efficient, if you use a Capacitive transformer, it will be much more efficient. if i am not right please correct me, but i thought 32V is the quarter of 128V. Shouldn't this be the resonance voltage?
I have to read everthing through too. with an capacitive transformer, you don't have an idle wastage. (one in serial after it one in parralel after this a Diode Bridge if needed.)

cu rheandros

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 21 2013 :  06:58:26  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi rheandros
The rotary transformer is about using the magnetic coupling fields as a rotational force.The bulk of the output is mechanicle-no electrical.I am lost as to your comment(but i thought 32V is the quarter of 128V)as we have 240 volts ac grid power here in Australia.I am also stepping that voltage down with a 10/1 transformer,so as i have 24 volts ac.This is then rectified via a FWBR,giving me around 22 volts half wave DC.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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rheandros
New Member



Germany
15 Posts

Posted - April 21 2013 :  08:08:25  Show Profile Send rheandros a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hi tinman
my mistake can't tell you how i get 128? surely you have 240V.
i thought about the Rotoverter, to let it run with the quarter of 240V.
Then Resonance will get in. So the Waste from amperage to heat will be much lower.
can you do a shematic please. I am a bit slow to get all imformation from the videos.
Sorry for my interesting english....a bit rosty.


Light to Light
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rheandros
New Member



Germany
15 Posts

Posted - April 21 2013 :  08:12:16  Show Profile Send rheandros a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...I want to add, you're work and the others, with us, is really exceptionell thanks a lot

Light to Light
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kapierenundkopieren
New Member



Slovenia
2 Posts

Posted - April 22 2013 :  18:12:42  Show Profile Send kapierenundkopieren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Tinman!
Could you please provide a scheme for the circuitry in this video (time 2:05), it would help me a lot.
Today I was fooling around with a small 220V 125W universal motor of poor efficiency. I hooked it up to rectified 48V source (it barely turned at 24V) and did get it to speed up a bit under load. On one coil shorted through a diode the consumption was 32W, versus 37W not shorted... but the speed up effect was not so intense like in your videos.
...hope to see a continuation of this video series ...

quote:
Originally posted by TinMan

Apples for apples
Watts for RPM


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69

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gotoluc
New Member



Canada
17 Posts

Posted - April 27 2013 :  19:27:48  Show Profile Send gotoluc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello TinMan and everyone,

this is my first post on this forum to which I didn't know existed until TinMan posted a link on the OU forum today.

Thank you TinMan for sharing the evolution of your L.A.G research. I must say I'm very impressed with how you kept the simplicity of your design by using a slightly modified off the self Universal motor.

Somehow I have a feeling we could use your evolved L.A.G with my permanent magnet assisted motor design to give your L.A.G much more torque at no extra electrical current expense. I hope we can find a way for both to work together as the boost could be as much as 10 times what you're getting now.

Maybe we can Skype together (when you have a moment) to go over the ideas I have and see if both could be incorporated together.

My Skype user name is: gotoluc and my email is: gotoluc@yahoo.com

Thanks for sharing

Luc
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 30 2013 :  07:48:05  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Luc
Indeed we could put our head's together on this one.
I will add you to my skype.
also spread the word about our forum here if you could.
Take the time to look through the forum-you will find that everyone gets on well here--no argueing lol.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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gotoluc
New Member



Canada
17 Posts

Posted - May 02 2013 :  23:49:00  Show Profile Send gotoluc a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TinMan

Hi Luc
Indeed we could put our head's together on this one.
I will add you to my skype.
also spread the word about our forum here if you could.
Take the time to look through the forum-you will find that everyone gets on well here--no argueing lol.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69



Thanks for the reply

I added your skype. I'm kind of busy these days with building a houseboat, so I don't know when we'll connect.

I agree! the site is clean. However, getting more people to join may not keep it this way?

Talk to you later

Luc

Edited by - gotoluc on May 04 2013 09:00:15
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ciucianebbia
New Member



Italy
2 Posts

Posted - May 04 2013 :  03:14:30  Show Profile Send ciucianebbia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Tinman,
your work is amazing: I can imagine that you are climbing a mountain, with all the difficulties and hardships of the case, so you have all my respect and my support: do not give up and continue to share your experiences and insights.
Iím a newbie here and my native language is not english, so please, if you can, be patient...
In the past I've used scratch motor to make bedini or converted in switch reluctance motor (a la Lindemann) and I have already followed the thread of ufopolitics and built a couple of asymetrical motors by small DC motors. Window motor: built also one of this and few pulse motors.
BUT.
None of these experiments has never reached the promising efficiency of your experience. So I'm here to learn from you.
I like your work and I humbly want to validate, reproducing your motor-generator with a washing machine motor I have:
I need some information on how to rewind the rotor: possibilities:
1 - Each coil is trifilar: trigger + run for SSG and the third coil generator, all in the same direction CW or CCW
2 - Each coil is bifilar: trigger + run for SSG and the third coil (generator) is wound over the first 2, all in the same direction CW or CCW or the generator opposite to the first 2
Output from the generator coil is connected to diode bridge or 2 diodes only ?
Gauge of the 3 windings ?

Another thing that is unclear to me:
you assume that the RPM of the motor is expression of the efficiency of the motor:
say with an input of 33 watts I get 1107 RPM and I consider this an efficiency of 80%.
ergo I deduce that to have 100% efficiency I should go up to 1383 rpm:
here implies that the efficiency and the RPM are in linear relationship: is it really? For each motor or at least for this motor? I do not know, I ask because it is a key point: all other calculations do arise from this assumption.

Thanx
Mauro
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - May 05 2013 :  19:27:17  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Mauro,and welcome to the IAEC.
There is no need to rewind the rotor-it is fine just the way it is.
As soon as i get my new lab setup,i will be making a video to show you how to make the rotary transformer-it is very simple.If you have been watching UFOpolotics video's ,and been following his thread-you will be well confused as to what you need to do to make an efficient brushed motor.UFO has some wild ideas as to how things work,and he has little idea as to how to measure p/in to p/out.I think he is trying to make some sort of wacky pollyphase converter???.
Anyway,i will have the video up within 3 to 4 week's.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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ciucianebbia
New Member



Italy
2 Posts

Posted - June 05 2013 :  07:36:12  Show Profile Send ciucianebbia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello TinMan,
some news about the video to show how to make the rotary transformer ?

Thanx

Mauro
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - June 06 2013 :  07:22:38  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ciucianebbia

Hello TinMan,
some news about the video to show how to make the rotary transformer ?

Thanx

Mauro



Yes,i will be showing a video soon on how to do it.I have been very busy with a hidden project,but that will be here soon.I am now finding some free time,so there are a few projects i will be completing soon.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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1horn
New Member



USA
17 Posts

Posted - June 18 2013 :  19:07:21  Show Profile Send 1horn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Tin Man... hello from America. I started on the Christmas motor build off in October never got to first base. I needed a 3d printer to make a part for it and by the time I got that done it was March LOL. Anyway when you get your secret project going make sure you give a set of plans to Russ (or someone you can trust) so we don't loose the advantage of your genius (just in case). This rotary transformer is incredible. Fantastic work. What really gets me is how close the old timers were. It is really a simple mod to get to where you are from where they were. Genius always looks simple though, once it is revealed. My hat is off to you sir, I think you have done it. I am not sure you even need all that fancy pulse modulator (though I can see how it could help)
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1horn
New Member



USA
17 Posts

Posted - July 01 2013 :  22:10:01  Show Profile Send 1horn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You must be logged in to see this link.
picture of my rotary transformer copy off.
spins at 7200 RPM (about). slows and speeds up (depending on diode direction) when I put a diode across any one of the stator windings.
but power draw goes down when it slows down and power draw goes up when it speeds up. So I am so far unable to duplicate what TinMan saw.
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1horn
New Member



USA
17 Posts

Posted - July 07 2013 :  18:31:22  Show Profile Send 1horn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TinMan, I tried to copy off your rotary transformer...
here is what I got...
You must be logged in to see this link.
label on the motor that I used
You must be logged in to see this link.
I opened up the motor, removed everything and attached red and black wires to each stator coil (after cutting them apart)
You must be logged in to see this link.
I got a big old transformer to cut the 115 volts down to 28VAC
You must be logged in to see this link.
the watt meter is on the 115VAC side of the transformer (primary) the output goes through the full wave bridge and to the brushes (no cap)
You must be logged in to see this link.
I tried a regular silicon diode and a schottky diode
You must be logged in to see this link.
power draw all stator windings open (no connections
You must be logged in to see this link.
diode in wrong direction, motor slows down
You must be logged in to see this link.
power drawn from primary drops
You must be logged in to see this link.
diode in the other way, motor speeds up (gains about 2000 rpm)
You must be logged in to see this link.
power draw from mains goes up as well
It was fun to build it and I was supprised that I got it to work.
I was even more supprised when it didn't do what yours did.
cheers
Richard
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tim123
New Member



United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - September 01 2013 :  13:13:45  Show Profile Send tim123 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Tinman. Thought I'd better join up... :)

I think I've figured out how this works... Nice one mate. Not too shabby. Am I allowed to spill the beans, and elaborate...?

Tim


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tim123
New Member



United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - September 01 2013 :  13:43:01  Show Profile Send tim123 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have to say I think this is an awesome bit of engineering. It does demonstrate - really simply - that you can use the Lenz-force in your favour.

What's more, it leads on to a whole new class of motors... This effect can be further engineered and perfected, and should result in a COP approaching 2, assuming my understanding is correct, perhaps more...

Nice work Brad. :)
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 03 2013 :  03:35:56  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 1horn
We are going at it again,but step by step this time.

@ tim-welcome aboard,and feel free to share your thoughts.

Ok,lets get this show on the road.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 05 2013 :  05:58:56  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - September 05 2013 :  12:46:16  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interesting tinman :) Is the input 24VAC or are you somehow using DC?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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Shortblokenator
New Member



United Kingdom
42 Posts

Posted - September 05 2013 :  16:57:43  Show Profile Send Shortblokenator a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A heady mix of fascination and bewilderment I'm experiencing right now! It must be magic!

Keep up the Great Work TinMan!!

Take care and Good Luck to us All!
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 06 2013 :  05:04:00  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@ Kile
24 volt rectified(only) AC,wich is PtoP value. This give us around 22 volts half wave DC output.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 06 2013 :  05:05:07  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Short,and thanks
Here is the first video'd replication.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  11:00:26  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another eplication done by NTezla
He is using a vacume cleaner motor.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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spudbone
New Member



1 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  17:38:36  Show Profile Send spudbone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Howdy Ho TinMan.

Followed you here from watching your YouTube videos and then realized I had previously joined the forum! Gonna bookmark this.

Very interesting experimentation with the rotary transformer concept. I wonder how large (in horsepower) a motor could be used before diminishing returns? I've been looking around for a 1 horse or better pump motor to test and if it happens I'll share notes.

Regards,

Spud
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  21:59:33  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi spudbone
Yes.please post any projects you may have-we love the new here.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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tim123
New Member



United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - September 08 2013 :  03:54:27  Show Profile Send tim123 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi folks. I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that this is not an OU phenomenon...

The effect relies on us switching the rotor polarity when it's at the center of the stator, and I think this takes as much energy as you get back, if not more...

I could be wrong. If it is OU though, it should be possible to come up with a design that uses PM's and coils, rather than 2 sets of coils. I'll keep thinking about it...

Tim
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tim123
New Member



United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - September 08 2013 :  04:05:04  Show Profile Send tim123 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW - more info at:
You must be logged in to see this link.

Gaining understanding is never a bad thing eh. It's good to deystify things, like the 'Turxator' which turned up today on Peswiki:

You must be logged in to see this link.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 08 2013 :  05:19:05  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Tim
Welcome to the IAEC
First up,as stated on the OU thread-this is not an OU machine,but a way to show an effect that we could better use elsewere.
The test i have carried out on my particular machine,shows a high increase in efficiency-nearly double that of an off the shelf motor-that being the house fan.
The best is yet to come,but time to look at what we have first,and uderstand fully what is happening.
At the moment,from what you have seen-we are only at 50% efficiency at the moment.
Remember,i am only using 1 coil at the moment,and that was as much as i showed with the first RT-that i put up against the standard H.E fan motor,doing the same job-only better.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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morbus
New Member



23 Posts

Posted - November 16 2013 :  14:58:01  Show Profile Send morbus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Tinman,
are you still working whith transformer engine?
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