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 Alum Battery
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Kongen
New Member


32 Posts

Posted - November 13 2012 :  15:05:14  Show Profile Send Kongen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi!
I wonder if any of the members has any experience with alum batteries?
John Bedini told me that I could use 3 cups of alum to 1 gallon of destilled water to form a alum battery, mix it and wait until you have a syrup consistansy. I have not yet tried it because I don'have a battery that has been completely desulphatet yet. However I am waiting for 50 pounds of alum in the mail!


Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - November 13 2012 :  23:24:03  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Kongen
Ive done a little bit of work with alum batterys. In JB orignal video he showed using 4oz to a gal of water. I never tried a higher concentration than that. The first 1 was dump, rinse with tap water and add Alum solution. Happy with that 1. #2 and 3 were conditioned first, got rinsed with 1tspn per gal baking soda then added Alum. #2 battery shorted out and #3 is a little flakey but its been abused the most. I would love to know what the higher level of Alum will do. The best thing I can say about these batterys is it give untill there is no more to give right down to the bitter end. On #3 batt Ive have absolutey killed it then recharge and back to work. LOL Still working

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - November 13 2012 :  23:28:29  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kongen
I found the old thread may be this will help us both.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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TheJamieMilner
New Member



Australia
15 Posts

Posted - February 06 2013 :  19:22:35  Show Profile Send TheJamieMilner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Using distilled water is a must. Tap water is filled with lots of dissolved ions that quickly attach themselves to the plates when charging takes place. It may seem a waste but I would use distilled even to wash the battery out. I've used 1:10 alum to water and had some success with this. Since then John Bedini has suggested increasing the concentration until the solution feels slippery/soapy to the touch. I haven't tried this as I've been working on my SG, but intend to get back to it sometime later

Edited by - TheJamieMilner on February 06 2013 19:28:38
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - February 07 2013 :  08:31:27  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome Jamie.

Are the cells worth building? John Hutchinson is quoted as saying that some of his cells have exploded in his kitchen because they drew too much power. That can't be a good thing for 1/3 of a volt.
Earth batteries can produce that and I have never heard of them exploding.
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - February 07 2013 :  17:01:17  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry I wasn't clear before. The battery's were filled with Alum and distilled water. My next battery will have to filled with the higher concentration but I wont be rinsing any more with baking soda.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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TheJamieMilner
New Member



Australia
15 Posts

Posted - February 09 2013 :  07:34:58  Show Profile Send TheJamieMilner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave, yes they are worth building, but bear in mind that you will have a lower output voltage somewhere between 11 and 12v.
I have played around with old rubbish bin batteries and have been impressed enough that when I have some excess cash that I would be game to convert a lead acid from new! Big benefit from these batteries is they are deep cycle in contrast to regular lead acid. I have never had one explode yet. They put out good amps!
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - February 09 2013 :  10:07:31  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was following Lidmotors work on the cells, but I think that Nathan Stubblefield's work on earth batteries have more promise than anything else I have seen. You must be logged in to see this link.

11 and 12v???
I have not seen anything come close to that.
Can you post some of your work Jamie?
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TheJamieMilner
New Member



Australia
15 Posts

Posted - February 10 2013 :  03:01:00  Show Profile Send TheJamieMilner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok,
Please note all batterys were in the disposal pile at the local battery reseller and recovered from that point!
Note the CCA is about 2/3 of the original, I'm note sure if that is a function of the deteriorated state of the batteries (they predated my SG!) or a function of the chemical change of the electrolyte.
A regular car starter battery and an independent test from the local battery dealer.
It's important to note the statement on the test ticket reflects the presumed electrolyte is sulphuric acid and draws the conclusion based on whether the voltage and amp output suggests the battery is healthy or unhealthy.
It does not reflect on the chemistry of the alum conversion. Incidentaly I ran a car starter battery on NaSO4 (sodium sulphate) for 6 months in my daily vehicle before it started to slow down.
Here is a video I made to help others deal with non-maintenence batteries
You must be logged in to see this link.
It's probably too long winded but it was done in a hurry for a friend who was potentially heading off to the back blocks of Papua New Guinea.
Here's the pics of the validated test batteries.



Truck battery



Motor cycle battery
Note this battery has been Alum and currently is Epsom salt electrolyte and is still going!


I'm not sure about the health of the other two..I think one developed a short. It's been some time and I kept telling myself I'd do a healthy battery conversion to confirm the results but due to low $ have not yet got around to it.
I hope that helps!
Jamie

Edited by - TheJamieMilner on February 10 2013 04:02:25
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - February 10 2013 :  10:24:44  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that Jamie.

I was thinking of small crystal like cells - brain freeze again :)
I have been off topic. lol
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Bill Terry
New Member



USA
2 Posts

Posted - February 14 2013 :  12:20:31  Show Profile Send Bill Terry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheJamieMilner

Using distilled water is a must. Tap water is filled with lots of dissolved ions that quickly attach themselves to the plates when charging takes place. It may seem a waste but I would use distilled even to wash the battery out. I've used 1:10 alum to water and had some success with this. Since then John Bedini has suggested increasing the concentration until the solution feels slippery/soapy to the touch. I haven't tried this as I've been working on my SG, but intend to get back to it sometime later


When you say 1:10 do you mean 1:10 FL/OZ or by vol? IE 6.5 FL/OZ per 1/2 Gal?
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - February 14 2013 :  15:51:51  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi BT

1 oz. is 1 oz so yes 6.5 oz to 1/2 gal 64 oz is close. AND Welcome

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TheJamieMilner
New Member



Australia
15 Posts

Posted - February 14 2013 :  16:23:11  Show Profile Send TheJamieMilner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The ratio is by weight. John Bedini has recently been working with concentrations above this for his "crystal cells" so 1:10 is the bottom end for concentration.
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Bill Terry
New Member



USA
2 Posts

Posted - February 17 2013 :  11:41:38  Show Profile Send Bill Terry a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So the 1:10 is by weight not fl/oz. I have one of each. The weight or 1/2 gal of water about 66 oz weight, and 64 fl/oz. BOTH Forget the post.
I checked weight and they are both close and I had not checked on the weight of 1/2 gal of water. I was thinking it was about 40 oz. Some times I just feel dumb.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - February 17 2013 :  12:04:47  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi BT

As long as we ALL learn, WE can just laugh at ourselves but we are smarter for it.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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totoalas
Junior Member



Macao
168 Posts

Posted - March 12 2013 :  17:30:17  Show Profile Send totoalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
been using over a year the Alum batteries 12 v 7 ah for solar charging and 3 car batteries with 60 w solar panel
easily charged from 5 to 13 v with 24/7 jr led lighting 8 pcs 5 w 220 v ac lamps
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binyamin1234
New Member



2 Posts

Posted - August 15 2015 :  09:15:25  Show Profile Send binyamin1234 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello all:
I am new here but my experiences with lead alum battery are not good. I watched bedini Alum conversion videos and did the following:
1. Took a brand new dry charged 12 volt 50 Ah battery and activated it with 12.5 specific gravity sulphuric acid electrolyte because in one of the videos Chuck Hupp said you should activate your batteries with acid for full amperage.
2. Used an intelligent microcontroller 3 step battery charger to activate the battery. The float voltage of the charger is 14.2 volts and it shuts off automatically.
3. The battery with acid electrolyte was giving standing voltage of 12.8 volts. Battery was perfect and a load test of 30 Amps was passed by the battery. There was no broken battery welds in any Cell or battery shorts. It was a perfect battery.
4. Then I dumped the acid out and washed it with water like John Bedini said and let rest upside down to dry for one day.
5. Next I added 1:10 of Potassium Aluminum Sulphate to distilled water and boiled it till it dissolved then filled the cells with the alum solution.
6. After filling of cells initial voltage was 8.5 volts
7. after charging it overnight with the 3 stage microcontroller charger. the voltage was about 10.5 volts.
8. I hooked a 5 amp 12volt bulb to the 50 Ah battery and the battery would not even last 1 hour. It would go down to 1 volt.
9. Tried many times charging and discharging and still no luck in increasing capacity or the standing charged voltage.
10 . Then I added more ground alum powder to the cells still it didn't help.
11. after wasting one month with it I dumped all the chemical out and cleaned the battery properly. Let it upside down and after one day filled it again with acid now it gives me 12.4 volts.
12. I see people here talking about using SSG to make their alum batteries . Can I not properly make an Alum battery using a simple charger or was it the chemical at fault. Also there are types of alum :
Ferric, Nonferric, Ammonium, Potash and Simple Aluminum Sulphate Hydrate. Which one is it.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 15 2015 :  10:46:33  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi biny


Alum sulphate simple food grade. Don't expect a 12.8 volt battery around 10.4 would be good.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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binyamin1234
New Member



2 Posts

Posted - August 16 2015 :  07:01:40  Show Profile Send binyamin1234 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thankyou 49er:
You mean I was using the wrong Alum i.e potassium Alum. I thought alum batteries require SSG to properly charge them. I didn't have a SSG so I used a simple 3 stage charger. I will try again with Aluminum Sulphate.
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