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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member


USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 08 2012 :  11:19:49  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First off and foremost; Thank you for giving me a way to contribute.
Use this as you wish.

As requested, Here's the video.



This turned into more of a repair than the others because the solder point was off...

I used a conductive glue which I consider to be a patch vs repair, but it's back outside and producing.

I'm awaiting my order of silver conductive paint.
I understand this to be a way get the solder point back!
I will post another video after it arrives.

Edited by - olddawgsrule on January 28 2012 21:17:40

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - January 08 2012 :  16:41:16  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Very nice, I have never herd of that epoxied before. Keep us updated when it goes into full sun and see if it works. Keep it coming that is the only we all learn.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - January 09 2012 :  14:37:48  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey ODR, I found this stuff and am curious if you ever tried it

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I'm thinking of trying this method for some panels since I can't pay what they want for new ones anyway.. I'll just have to find a good frame ..

You must be logged in to see this link.

==================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 09 2012 :  14:51:30  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yesterday was a full day run/test of both the solar array (60WATT) vs the Sampu (only running 1 coil).
1 battery hooked up each.

Mostly cloudy day, sun peeked through a few times.
Panels were very even on power.

Results were Sampu by .2 vdc
After 12 hr rest (taken this am) dead even.
Both batteries read 12.13vdc.

Today is a full sun day and only the panels are up.
The repaired panel with the conductive glue is under producing by .13vdc
The other 3, I was able to re-connect/ solder back on.

My conclusions so far are, even with the added resistance quality of the glue, not a bad patch.
Do not consider this repaired.. yet.

I'm really looking forward to the silver conductive paint and see how that works!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 09 2012 :  15:52:54  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kudzu

Hey ODR, I found this stuff and am curious if you ever tried it

You must be logged in to see this link.

I'm thinking of trying this method for some panels since I can't pay what they want for new ones anyway.. I'll just have to find a good frame ..

You must be logged in to see this link.

==================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...




I have tabbing wire/ribbon here and use it for my little project cells I have.
Tabbing wire is great, but you have to have a point to solder it to.
If you can go with the picture of the cells you reference, it 'looks' like it has the points.

Unless my math is way off and you're not looking for a 12vdc system, I'm seeing this 100pc pack as equaling a 5watt panel (assuming all spec's shown are 'open' voltage).

What I don't see/read is are they coated?
Even if they are and you're looking to multiply them and set them outside, you'll need to encapsulate them for protection of weather.

I find most of these types of panels are great for use inside.
I have a few and play with them, finding different ways to use them.

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 09 2012 :  16:38:37  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry Kudzu, I meant to say if you 'are' looking to make a 12v system.
The project cells I have are 4.5v, but lower amp.
I need to run some numbers, but I think you've got a pretty good project cell here (for the dollar).
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - January 09 2012 :  16:44:06  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey ODR , I've just been looking over options and trying to figure my best bet for panels that I will be happy with ... I've seen the frames with the cover plate included .. I was thinking of trying to find a kit and laying it out for 24v .. Multiple panels if a big kit is found .. I've still got a lot of research to do but, I figure with the right stuff, a kit may be another way for me to go cheap .. I appreciate your input and video's , Thank's

==================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 09 2012 :  17:00:42  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been looking at laminate's lately.
Not sure the 'outside' expense, meaning everything I need to do to get them outside, is worth it.
The pricing is very inciting and the procedure is simple (or so it seems).

Like I said, I'm looking at these.
This may indeed be where Solar Panels are headed.
So many ways of using/adapting them to existing structures.

God I love innovation!
Shame I'm an 'old dawg"....
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 26 2012 :  08:34:04  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The silver conductive paint arrived yesterday and since I have another 'free day', I'm going to apply it to one of my 'project' panels and see how it works.

I'll video the process and post it when complete.
Since the paint needs 24hrs to cure and I am scheduled tomorrow, probably won't get back to it till Saturday (paint should be good & cured by then).

In the interim, I'll head out to the workshop and make up a frame for it.

I'm excited to see how well this works!
The theory is; I can get the solder point back.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - January 26 2012 :  09:37:17  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

This will be very interesting, It will be a new way to make an electric connection and also will see if it will hold up with the amps Thanks

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 28 2012 :  10:34:58  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, sorry to report, the silver conductive paint does not hold up to heat.

After tinning my wires this is what I tried;

I tested at the end strip of silver conductive paint I put on and as soon as I touched the paint, it did what paint does, melted away.

Next I tried to tin it by drip soldering, again just melted away.

Next I tried 'loading' solder on the wire and applying heat to the wire, again just melted away as the solder softened.

Contrary to the advertising for this product, it's seems to be more paint than silver..

The package it came in talks more of 'solder-less' connecting like the glue I used to repair my panel.

I'm going to try that on the panel next and will also use my glue to compare adhesion & conductivity.

I will say right now, this conductive paint (for the dollar spent) has to 'blow away' the glue!

OH yes, as an update, the glue is still holding up well on the repaired panel and producing equally to the soldered repaired panels I did last fall.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - January 28 2012 :  13:00:36  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Good to hear that the glue is still holding but real bad for the paint. Thanks for the up date and I will have to find the glue that you used.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 29 2012 :  09:14:32  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's the Ebay link for the glue;
You must be logged in to see this link.




quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR

Good to hear that the glue is still holding but real bad for the paint. Thanks for the up date and I will have to find the glue that you used.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 29 2012 :  10:05:19  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Completed the test of the Silver conductive paint vs the wire glue.
24hr cure time

My results are;

Both pass voltage equally

When removing the painter's tape I used to hold the wires in place;

Silver conductive paint came off quite easily (while carefully removing the tape)
No real adhesive quality

Wire glue held much better, yet didn't take much to remove.
Stayed on while removing the tape and held with light lateral tug.
Lift up on the wire (which shouldn't happen in the 'real world') came off quite easily.

Both products were equal in cost (or close enough not to matter).

The Silver conductive paint has enough to do, maybe a dozen connections.
While the Wire Glue would do easily 3 dozen or more.

Till I find something better, I'm going with the Wire glue.

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - January 29 2012 :  11:57:05  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

That report is very useful and thank you

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 29 2012 :  16:22:12  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Video to come as I setup one of the 'project panels' to run.

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - February 02 2012 :  23:51:11  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey ODR , I was just reading through and caught your update .. Good stuff , BTW ..
I'm curious though the epoxy two part that you said would corrode . If it bond's better, can you just coat it when your done with some sort of primer or your silver solder paint ( if it is silver it may tarnish eventually ) and stop the corrosion that way and get a stronger repair in the end ?
I was just curious if you have tried it that way and if it still failed or corroded .

==================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - February 03 2012 :  04:54:36  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kudzu, I did seal the epoxy, but not buried in silicone as I have since learned is best.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - February 05 2012 :  16:04:11  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry Kudzu, should have explained further.

I didn't use silicone, mainly because I didn't know what the conductivity of it was. No tests, no knowledge.

I used 'liquid tape'.
This is a great outdoor product for sealing electrical connections.
I either missed sealing it 'completely', had some sort of reaction between the liquid tape and the epoxy or it's not 'completely' what it claims to be.

I have had good success with it prior and why I used it.

I did find the epoxy to become brittle with time, so the adhesion quality is not great with time.

Believe it or not... I had a control panel downstairs (just forgot to get it outside).
The epoxy, kept inside, still got brittle.

What I've learned, from reading up on 'laminate panels', is burying the connections in silicone seems to be the best way.

I figure, cost value and no difference in conductivity, I'm going with the wire glue and burying it in silicone on the next test.

I'll let you know in 10 years how it worked out.... Sorry, just my attempt at humor...



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - February 06 2012 :  01:12:21  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey ODR , I was thinking ( I know I shouldn't do that when I'm not usto it , lol )
Have you ever used RTV like the ultra series for automotive gasket use , 3M , permatex , one of the major brand name's.. After you use whatever compound that conduct's current that you like ( I've used one I think it was called liquid solder or something like that )then put a good thick coat of RTV , It wear's like iron and if you prepped the surface you have to dang near cut it back off .. They have a wide degree of temperature tolerance and are not affected by most chemical's ...
The sealant for windshield installation is also one I've used outside manufacturer's spec's on project's with very good result's ..
Now these are two thing's I've used for sealing and holding electrical project's over the year's with great success, To keep them secured and water tight ..
Now , Of course these repairs and quick fixes were on vehicle's and not a solar panel but, they held well and saved me from having to buy an ignition modual on one car and a 6pack coil on another .. On those two I drove 1 of em for a year or better and if the people that wound up buying em didn't wreck em I'd think they were still going fine ( at least those part's , lol ) .. Ok , I've rambled a book on here , sorry . lol .. Hope it help's anyway

==================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - February 06 2012 :  16:38:55  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hadn't heard of this RTV before and looked it up.

What I read, was that it's a 2 part, basically silicone, product used in molds because it will 'part' from the mold.

It does say it will resist high temps, but you can buy 'high' temp silicone.

I trust your experience that it works, but without personal comparison, I'm having a hard time believing it's better than 100% silicone, if you want the 'seal' permanent.

No slight towards you're suggestion, appreciate the input, believe me!
Always interested in something new!

I have looked at the windshield adherent.
I believe that to be a mix of silicone and a acrylic base.
We use something similar every day in my trade.
It's water tight (to an extant), but will come apart as required.

100% silicone! Good luck getting that apart (and clean) without breaking something or using chemicals I would prefer not to.. Just my experience.

High temp 100% silicone!! "Bless me Father for I have sinned for I know not what I have done" and I'm not even catholic!!

I'm working on a simple way to inclose the silicone to seal the connection and not attach to the frame.

I have a simple little mold, with a plastic 'baggie' inside, covering the connection.
Hoping the silicone will cure, cut away the excess and mount the frame.

This way it has no adhesion to the frame.

Now if I use an acrylic based sealant to the frame.
I should have something that will, if necessary, come apart and, of the most part, be 'water-tight'.

My theory and yet to be proven...






Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - February 06 2012 :  16:50:29  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some really good hands on videos on soldering on junction boxes here:

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The only 2 panels I made, was along while back, but I use similar technique to SMD soldering, as shown in the videos above. This is how they do it in the factory, either by hand, or by automation.

Cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - February 06 2012 :  17:46:44  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Kc!
Appreciate the input.

I'm also following them (and a few others working with laminates) and see their connecting and 'burying' in silicone.

They all start with a 'good' point of connection to the panel.
When that is gone.. well, we start over creating one.

My 'theory' now, as all can be adjusted with testing, is use the best, inexpensive', productive that conduct's as well and 'bury' it in silicone.

What I don't wish to happen, is have this silicone seal to the frame.
Then the frame, basically, is not removable (well, at least with any means of ease).

I love the fact that your looking at them (laminates), for I believe this is the future of solar panels.

Just 'too' many possible uses in so many ways!
Makes my head spin with I think about it and it's possible uses.

Make them 'translucent'!
Oh my!!!
Think about that...
Any window south facing becomes a solar panel and still admits light!
Add a skylight.... OH MY!!

Sorry... got off on a tangent there...
Just love technologically and where it can head.






Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - February 06 2012 :  21:26:00  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey ODR , I haven't used the two part epoxy gasket maker for electrical the one's I've used were the ultra and high temp there a high temp silicone and have a good bond , according to where the patch was located they bond well to surfaces for me ... But it's all in what your used to working with I guess ( car guy here lol ), I was just saying if you want to try it I've had good luck with it in the past .. Check the auto part's sites for different applications they have different version's here's some that's worked well and you can make your own gasket's , lol .. They just bond to a surface better for me than regular silicone ..

You must be logged in to see this link.

==================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

Edited by - Kudzu on February 08 2012 02:46:21
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - February 06 2012 :  21:56:29  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If I am ever make another solar panel again which I probably won't given that I get a pretty fair deal on them... I will do it entirely different, than I did then, which was to use Silgard as an encapsulant.

The reason is, one of them 7 years later is already dead. Condensation, corrosion. Killed it.

Next time I would:
1. build a vacuum table that had a heater in it
2. Use Specialized Technology Resources (STR Brand) 33544-P/UF fast curing EVA. Silgard is so expensive now anyway. EVA is better.

Of course, that would be quite an undertaking, no so expensive really, but you'd have to be planning to make a few kilowatts to bother.

* read this excellent post on otherpower.com by Oztules

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And in case you didn't catch it in the thread, and are truly interested in DIY, check this price out:
You must be logged in to see this link.

It's been awhile since I priced cells, but here are some free shipping (to me anyway, in Canada) for about 40c / watt:
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A simplified, more-or-less approach, with the same goals in mind would go like this:



Another video:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on February 06 2012 22:19:01
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