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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member


USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  12:15:03  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do have a question for you Doug.

I've been reading about how you and others have split your battery banks and why.
I'm about to bring 2 more into service and it's time to totally understand the how's.

I assume you have some switches involved;
One to change over the charge controller.
One to change over inverters.

Second would be:
Are you changing over on a time basis?
Or a voltage basis?






Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  14:05:54  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

I have a HF switch 100 AMP between the panels and the controller also fused. Also between the batteries and the controller a switch. Between the bank and the inverter 500 AMP fuses for the master inverter only. The other 2 inverters are on bank 2 and bank 3 and are 750 watt HF. They are not externally fused and I swap then when I give the 1 bank its rest. I have the capable of charging all 4 banks from all or any of the 3 panel banks.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  15:26:59  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm going to ask, and I know you have a lot on your plate.. but
Can you draw this up?



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'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  15:49:29  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 03 2013 :  19:40:17  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Doug!

I drew this up a couple of weeks ago and it's still a work in progress.
[URL=http://s988.photobucket.com/user/olddawgsrule/media/Proposedcircuitlayout_zpsc7c4bd66.png.html][/URL]

Placement of fusing, switching and possible diode placement are my main questions here.

Looking at what you drew...
I think I'm close..

Give it a look when you have some time..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 04 2013 :  13:51:14  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Take out diode to inverter, fuse only. Also controller must be hooked to the battery before the panels are powered. Should have a switch between the panel and the controller after the fuse. The double throw switch may disconnect the controller for a micro second and blow the controller, use 2 on off for manual control and you need to also shut off the panel first before you switch after the battery.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 04 2013 :  17:03:20  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Re-drew to recommendations.

To be honest.. Had a hard time removing the diode without adding a switch..
Just see back-bleed there..




Hopefully I have this closer...

Thank you for your time in my quest of getting this right.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 04 2013 :  18:05:19  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

The joule I don't know about bleed back but the inverter NO. Question 2 your good.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 05 2013 :  17:03:19  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Doug!

The back-bleed comes from 'pre' inverter/joule ringer.
It's just the way I had both banks drawn I can see bleed back to the second bank.
The switches cure this.

As I re-draw, I will delete the last picture so no one following would be confused (as I did the last).

Next question is rating the fuses...

How did you go about figuring the fuse rate?


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 05 2013 :  17:39:45  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Updated drawing





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'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 06 2013 :  10:55:33  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

The switch between the battery has to be large enough to handle the amps of the inverter with the boost for start up, that's why I don't use one just the fuses. example 1000 watt with boost = 1500 watts /12v = 125 amps and that's bigger than HF switches. Your ringer I don't know.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - September 06 2013 :  13:04:24  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
heya olddawg. I suggest you redesignate all solar panels to the main bank, switch your joule ringer to 6V, and pulse charge a deep cycle 6V battery, from the main bank, thus giving back energy to the main bank. You could also use this 30 watts of solar in series (high voltage) to equalize the main bank to 15.25V with a TSO or similar circuit. You put too much emphasis on the joule ringer circuit; it's simply not that good and does not deserve so much dedication. If you look at my vids, im running JT's that are so bright at three volts they nearly cook your eyes out. Despite all the hype that has surrounded lasersabre and joule ringer etc., at the end of the day , these circuits are relatively inefficient by comparison to the better off-the-shelf equipment found cheap in todays marketplace, and by that, I am directly referring to (4) 1 watt lamps running switch-mode bucking drivers, that take 12VAC/12VDC and step down to 6 at the lamp. These devices far outperform any crude joule ringer, and are cheap. They also can be quickly "gutted" and run brightly from a JT, if the goal is "putting up with less light and running a lower voltage". To be specific, I mean gut a 12VDC 4 watt lamp (that actually steps down to 6V inside and is wired 6V) and run it on 1-3V JT or JR. (which is what i often do) Or simply put two in series and run it on 6V JT or JR.

cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on September 06 2013 13:09:08
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  09:28:33  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
KC, please hook me up to the videos.
I did a search and probably not addressing it right..
Also searched YouTube for your channel..

I would like to look into this some more.

I'd really like to see the thread on this!!
Must have addressed the search wrong there as well..

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  09:33:29  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doug, follow what you're saying!

So do you manually dis-connect the other bank from the inverter each time you switch over?



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'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  11:50:00  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Yes in your case. In my case I just switch it off and plug in to a different inverter for each. Wife proof. LOL One bank per inverter, less Chance of a OOPS.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  13:59:10  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that makes total sense to me!
Was having a had time figuring how you beat that bleed as I have it wired..

As it happens to be, I also have a second 'Big Boy' inverter (well, big to me..).
Bought it believing it was pure, but actually is modified sine wave (just like my other)..
With a conversation of how it was presented, received a coupon of half the value from his store products.
I have noticed he changed the description a bit.

No reason for the other one to sit around here doin' nothing.

Thank you Doug!
That answered a 'huge' question!!

I will re-draw and re-post.




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 07 2013 :  16:11:17  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote


The latest drawing with a few qualifications in mind.

Fuse values to follow..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 08 2013 :  09:13:49  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Coming right along here nicely!

Working on the fuse sizing and adding values to all items shown.

My assumption is fuse sizing is according to the battery bank's C20 rate. Not allowing over-draw to happen.

Fuse type becomes the next question.

I read about an ANL(?) type fuse that allows momentary over-draw for start-up's.
Seemed like a nice choice.

I also like Thermistors.
Will reset once power is removed.
With ranges into 100a, seemed a likely choice.





Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 08 2013 :  10:12:57  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

NO your fuse size is set to the inverters for there the ones you don't want to starve. Burns them up sometimes and your going to want to watch TV with that. My battery bank is 3500 AHs and the C20 rate for that is 700 amps and that would make a hell of a fire if it shorted. My inverter is 3000 and with a 6000 watt push so I have it fused for 500 amps.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 08 2013 :  11:15:06  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay then.. Had that backwards..
Reason I ask these questions..

Redrawn and hopefully have the panel fuses correct.. Fingers crossed..



Added values to most components.
Mainly for my use as I continue, but feel free to question, suggest and correct as you see fit.

Many thanks for the help!


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 11 2013 :  20:47:29  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

That looks like it should work. Just keep your eyes on the battery voltage when you use the batteries. Good luck

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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