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TinMan
Advanced Member


4082 Posts

Posted - March 23 2012 :  07:01:01  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As there seems to be a gold rush on HHO here on I.A.E.C lol, i think it would be handy to have a thread were we can post our thoughts and information found on HHO insted of it being scattered over everyone's HHO project threads.
So i will kick this of with a thought of confusion lol
This is in reguards to wet cells and dry cells.
Can some one please tell me what the diference is,as it seems to me they are the same thing.
They are both wet cells-if one was dry it wouldnt do anything lol.
The only diference i can see is the so called dry cell uses two end plates and gaskets to keep the water in- while a wet cell just uses a container of some sort.
At the end of the day both cell types are wet-they both have water over the plates.
All i see is a dry cell needing more parts to construct.
Water can be pumped through a wet cell just as well as in a dry cell.
Infact i see a dry cell being a total waste of material with no gain what so ever.
so lets have a look at the against for a dry cell-and remember ,these are only my thought's that make sence to me
1st-you need the two end plates-these have to be non conductive.
2nd -you need a gasket inbetween every plate including the end plates.
3rd-you loose the width of the gasket of your cell plates-a lose of surface area and a waste of money.
4th- you need a *Nice* load of bolt's around the cell to make sure a good seal can be achieved.
5th-you still have to have a water supply container.
6th-your stuck with useing flat plate of some description
So now the good point's
1st-you have a very robust cell-nice and strong.
2nd-preaty easy to mount into anything that has an engin.
3rd-well i cant think of any more than the first two lol.
Ok so what about a wet cell and it's bad points
1st-you have a big sloshing container of water that the cell sit's in.
2nd-can be a lot more bulky than a dry cell-but as we know a dry cell need's a water supply aswell.
3rd-well i cant think of any other's
The good points of a wet cell
1st-there very easy to build.
2nd-you dont loose any plate surface from gaskets.
3rd -there cheaper to build
4th -you can actualy see what is going on in the cell.
5th-not so many hole's to drill for end plates
6th- you can use any type of cell you want-wether it be tube's or plates or mesh-what ever you want.
To me a dry cell would be less efficient than a wet cell in reguards to materials used.



swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69

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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - March 24 2012 :  00:31:20  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
howdy tinman. i have checked out a ton of information on why some use wet or dry cells. reason alot of them are going to dry cell is because of safety for the most. the electrical connections in a wet cell can come loose and if they make a spark in the main gennerator it could cause serious damage. they more or less say with the dry cell none of those connections come in contact with any of the distilled water. i have seen alot of videos were guys try differnt material instead of stainless steel for there connection and the combination of lye and distilled water just ate through the material. now with output, i would say by the time all of use put our heads together we will find out which type of cell works the best lol. thats why i am making a wet and dry cell out of the same stock with same number of plates to see which one will work the best.

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - March 24 2012 :  10:46:05  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

I am with TM on this one the wet cell makes more CENTS LOL and is easer to build. By the time you add the extra tank and hose you have just as much equipment to mount and wet cells don't leak as much. The wet cell also has more sq." of area for production of HHO.

I looked on line at Ebay for a HHO gen and you can but a wire style with hookup parts for $20.00 and you can easily hook up 6 of these cells with low amp draw per cell and be on the road testing in days NO PWM needed. I feel that this would be the way to go IF you don't want to get your hands dirty but still want to be part of the HHO crowd.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 24 2012 :  21:58:00  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi SD
I can see the sence in that -but all you have to do is to put the conections below water level in the wet cell.Insted of haveing the conections at the top of the container-you put them at the bottom. I mean they have to be sealed anyway to stop the gases leaking out.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 01 2012 :  06:33:38  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a PDF file with ton's of info about HHO unit's
This PDF will cover everthing you need to know-including how to sort out that o2 sensor in the newer vehicles.
It also has links to PWM circuits and loads of other stuff
You must be logged in to see this link.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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n/a
deleted



2079 Posts

Posted - April 01 2012 :  12:22:47  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
excellent link there tinman, way to go.

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - April 01 2012 :  14:05:19  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

I agree with SD but with all this info stuff will get lost much easer. It's getting fuzzy on some things.LOL Too many bubbles

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 01 2012 :  23:09:48  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Imagine taking your battery out of its case, and placing the grid array in a bucket of acid, containing upwards to ten times the electrolyte needed. Then bounce it down the road. Would it still be as good? Would its performance still remain linear/steady? That is a wet cell, and that is why they do not perform as well in a vehicle as a dry cell. What if you were to say, well, I will condense the space, increase the voltage potential(total) and have no "extra" slop: that is a bob boyce cell or a george wiseman cell and yes they have their benefits; as TM pointed out, no current loss to non reactive energized plate surface area. What if you were to say: screw this, I'm not after linear direct current efficiency at all, I want to excite the volume into a capacitive state wherein the water splits apart not because of just direct current but other factors: that is stan meyers and can't be compared to any of the above (except possibly bob boyce).

Cheers
Just some thoughts! We all have our own.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on April 01 2012 23:16:36
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 02 2012 :  06:39:24  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I saw this and it seemed logical from the safety point !



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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 02 2012 :  07:53:27  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is some reserch and test that NASA carried out-anyone know about creating HHO with the stream reformation of methanol?
This make's HHO purely from the waste heat of the exaust-no electricity needed
You must be logged in to see this link.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 02 2012 :  10:39:11  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Greetings,

Here is a person that has Really negative thoughts...

A "glass half empty" kinda guy....



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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - April 02 2012 :  11:29:59  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

The one thing I see is that he took 200' avg for his figures so he tilted his out come you are at sea level and should have a better out come... LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 02 2012 :  16:56:39  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One of the things I find interesting is, that many skeptics refuse to believe that HHO works, based on very simple energy in vs. energy out laws of thermodynamics, which you know, should hold true BUT only in an environment where the combustion chamber was operating at 100% efficiency. So, normally, you have all these partial longchain hydrovarbons and CO coming out of your tailpipe, with HHO you don't. And the HHO (hydrogen) flamespeed is very fast. So what is so hard to believe about the idea that by replacing just "air" with "HHO" that you can better combust the fuel. The argument is that the energy you consume building the fuel cannot be recovered by the cylinders... however, what about the energy within the CO and longchain hydrocarbons? Do they refuse to add that energy into consideration, and if so, why? I mean in the before situation it's coming out of the pipe, in the after situation (HHO) it's not.

To me it's like saying, hey if you put gas on the fire, blowing cannot help. Yea it will help to blow on the fire. And the energy you consume to blow, is PART of the created output, but so is the further combusted material's contribution. The fire starts burning cleaner and less ash flies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 02 2012 :  21:07:46  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good morning,

I would agree... Nothing wrong with making a better mouse trap !!!

The internal combustion engine is not the most efficient device, so making it a bit cleaner can only be a step forward.

I am a "glass half Full" kinda guy LOL

Alan

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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 03 2012 :  02:03:21  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey ,
I wonder which Oil Company put that video up , LOL
Throw your HHO stuff in the garbage , ROTFLMAO
They think people don't know complete HHO system have been built to run engine's with only water ( I ain't sayin I'm smart enuff to make one , I do believe they have been built though ) .

Hey Tinman ,
Have you looked at a Canadian Patent by Stan Mayers # CA 1213671
Or US patent # 461,3304


=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 03 2012 :  05:21:36  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kudzu
No havnt looked at much of than's work-i'll leave that bit to Russ lol.
Im more interested in makeing something of my own design-something that anyone could make in there back shed.
Most of stan's work is very complicated looking at some of the stuff Russ is building.At the moment im concentraiting more on the loop system with HHO-then i will worry about the HHO generator itself.My first goal is a polutant free engin design.
I now have 6 days off ,so im hopeing to get it finished within those 6 days.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 03 2012 :  10:37:21  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As SD and 49er would say-grab the popcorn,and lots of it.
Beam me up scotty lol




swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - May 07 2012 :  08:29:57  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
here is a scematic diagram of Dave Lawton's replication HHO pulse unit



swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 08 2012 :  14:11:08  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey guy's,
I just thought I'd throw in this chip / it was developed in 1980 and although it only goes up to 300k it is easily made to go in MHZ range then another of the same chip to copy and amplify the same signal .. The pdf was one of the last specs sheet before it was basically stopped being used ( well it's used but another sequence of the same ).. I have found it to be what Stan Mayer used instead of Decade counters !

I was looking for a method to make the MHZ in a pulse for my system and believe I discovered Stan's Method in the process .. I've been pouring over the obsolete data for a couple day's and am convinced more and more of this to be the case anyway . Here is the old chip if anybody is interested section/page 8 is some pertinent info / there is also a bulletin that talk's of signal input and amplification of same signal .. The bulletin can be found through research if interested ..
EDIT: ICL8038 is the chip ! It was suppose to post the page but for some reason you'll have to pull up the chip again . Hope it help's !

You must be logged in to see this link.\icl8038_154399.pdf


=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla

Edited by - Kudzu on May 08 2012 14:21:59
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 08 2012 :  16:12:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

Do you have a drawing of how it should be used. The chip looks as to only cost 4.20 + shipping.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 08 2012 :  16:56:31  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er,
I saw the actual circuit the other day I think it was a video that Russ had did ... He went into saying those chip's were decade counter's / so not to worry about wiring the circuit like Stan did because a 555 could be used in place of all those chip's .. I am getting more convinced those were not decade counter's ! but, the output line for that chip should match the ICL8038 for frequency !
Tinman posted the circuit above it was thought to be the original but, it is a modification like everybody went to .. That is why nobody has made much Hydrogen they don't have the correct frequency in the circuit .
I think Russ has the original circuit of Stan Myers but, he hasn't answered my E-mail and I can't make head's or tail's of his website ( been too buisy to figure it out anyway , lol )
If you get a copy of Stan's actual circuit ( not 555 ) please let me know and I'll do the same ASAP !

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 08 2012 :  17:10:16  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

Will do if I run across it.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 08 2012 :  18:52:17  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er,
I had signed up on Russ G sight but, it's not what I'm usta navigating .. So I PM'd Russ and asked him to please give us a copy of Stan Mayer ( original circuit ) over here .. If he wouldn't mind , So we'll see if he get's the message .. Maybe we can get this going , soon and prove it one way or another ... I'm hoping to get more folk's on board and make sure what I have found is correct ..
As like I said that was the way I was planning to make frequency pulse for Hydrogen to tune a cell to frequency .. As a result think that was how Stan Mayer did it ..


=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla

Edited by - Kudzu on May 08 2012 20:09:42
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 09 2012 :  03:37:32  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK 49er,
I've PM'd and E-mailed everybody I could think that might want to help ..
Also , through search engines I found the page Russ and RWG has posted the circuit they worked up / I've got to update my PC to be able to open much up but, I believe this to be the circuit ... Also, I found there chip page for the project with no mention of the frequency generator chip's ...
AGAIN : I could be wrong as it has happened from time to time but, I believe that to be the key everybody has somehow missed ( some of the chip's should be a chip like ICL8038 !!! ) ... It will never reach the needed frequency without them !!!
The new class of chip like AD5932 will be very hard for us to test at our level with circuit's ,,, That's why we will need the old circuit ... If we make the old circuit do what Stan did then tech guy's will jump on it all over the world and work up the new one's in short order ( that is my hope anyway !!!)...
We still need the circuit schematic's but, it look's like most of the circuit is there ...

You must be logged in to see this link.


=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 09 2012 :  09:23:10  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

That circuit may be over my head so I will wait for the old circuit and thanks

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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fan1701
Average Member



USA
243 Posts

Posted - May 09 2012 :  13:58:09  Show Profile Send fan1701 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TinMan

here is a scematic diagram of stans HHO pulse unit



swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69


Hey Tinman. That is a schem. of Dave Lawton's replication and it is not the exact circuit. He built that to try to figure out what Stan was doing. Here is the inside of the 8XA. I have the schematic somewhere and will try to post it when I can.





These are from here.... You must be logged in to see this link.

There is a lot of great stuff on this site. Some things have been taken down. Good thing I have them on my hardrive.

al

* Not following the manufacturer recommended specs * ON PURPOSE!

Edited by - fan1701 on May 09 2012 14:05:53
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - May 09 2012 :  17:37:49  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Fan
You are correct-Russ pointed this out to me last night.
I have no idea why it is in with my stan meyer file's-will fix it now.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 10 2012 :  03:38:54  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Fan,
If you wouldn't mind PLEASE POST the pic's ! Especially of the circuit's and the backside of the circuit's ... Russ , is going to post some soon but, it will be great to have different pic's to compare .. Thanks for any and all help you can give !

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 10 2012 :  08:59:12  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi fan

Very nice info sheet. Will take some time to go through this stuff. Thanks again

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 10 2012 :  15:54:08  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guy's,
If I didn't look at it wrong ! I was looking to see what pin's could have been used if Stan used the ICL8038 === FM Sweep ,Timing , Sine wave adjust / Triangle out + NC / FM Bias , Duty Cycle Frequency
Another position = Sine wave adjust / Duty Cycle Frequency / Timing Capacity + FM Bias
This was just by looking at the circuit and flipping it to one of the two possible ways it could go / Also this is subject to me not making a mistake and doing it wrong , LOL
This was from a video where Russ showed the circuit that he said was identical to the 8XA .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla

Edited by - Kudzu on May 10 2012 15:56:37
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - May 11 2012 :  05:24:41  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Fan
I have built that circuit oflawton's and although it isnt stan's design,it is a very good pulse generator with pulse width adjustment.
But if anyone is to build it i would use some good heavy duty mosfets.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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fan1701
Average Member



USA
243 Posts

Posted - May 11 2012 :  13:41:23  Show Profile Send fan1701 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi guys. Looks like the site is down for some reason. Here is the 8xa. Please save it to your hardrive.



al

* Not following the manufacturer recommended specs * ON PURPOSE!

Edited by - fan1701 on May 11 2012 13:50:23
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 11 2012 :  23:55:12  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guy's ,
I've been thinking and it will be great to find all of Stan Mayer stuff but,
I'm going to collect the stuff and try to pulse the frequency through a circuit as I was planning before .. I have some of the stuff collected and I will try to order the chip's as soon as I can find a way .. I also am on the hunt for a good scope that will read up to the higher band of MHZ , cheap ... All the sound card scope's I've found so far don't read near high enough for what I'm after .. Anyway the Stan Mayer stuff is great , looking some of it over that fellow was brilliant ! But, What I understand from looking his work over now ... I believe I was on the right track to make Hydrogen My way .. There is a lot of people trying to replicate his work and the way Stan did it ( or the way they think he did it ).. I hope they succeed ! But, no circuit I've seen replicated to date will hit anywhere near resonate frequency needed / just my 2 cent's

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - May 14 2012 :  02:50:25  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK Guy's,
I know y'all are probably tired of me talking about the chip's but, I found a few people claiming to have old ICL8038 IC's dating back to 1973 , by the date stamp ... I still think there a cool old frequency IC and if you can order direct from China 10 of them are $7.99 with shipping .. IDK , I have to get setup to order .. In the meantime I'm trying to find the maximum range my old amp's will transfer a signal through without degrading it ... At the worst I'll kill a bit of time and re-fry some old punch amp's I already Fixed , lol .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla

Edited by - Kudzu on May 14 2012 02:54:30
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