International Alternative Energy Center
International Alternative Energy Center
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?




 All Forums
 Power of Nature
 Water Power
 Transom Wave Power
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

hkalan
Senior Member


Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 09 2012 :  03:24:02  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Hats off to 49er !!!!

49'er had a fun concept for me to try on my boat.

To attach several coils (single wrap) on top of each other and fix it to the transom (back of the boat). and have a float that has a stainless steel shaft with several NEO magnets on the shaft.

When the wave would move the float up and down inside the coils tube, the current made would go to a FWBR off each coil, and the DC out of the FWBR would go to a to a battery inside the vessel (3 feet away).

Here is his idea that I will begin to work with. If I can get the coils and FWBR set right, I can dip them into a fiberglass resin with the FWBR connected in parallel to a single connection on the top.

I am not sure how I would keep the magnets from being damaged by the salt water. I do not think the nickel plate will last too long... a thin coat of fiberglass resin may work.

Give us your thoughts.



Thanks Doug, this will be a fun summer project !

Alan

Google AdSense

USA
Mountain View


Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 09 2012 :  18:46:06  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Alan,
Have you seen anybody use a ball Neo to produce power ?
I was thinking a center thin wall tube that the Neo just would fit in good with a rubber bumper on each end to keep it from eventually breaking the tube end's and have the coils' wrapped around the thin tube with another 8inch or 10inch tube with a threaded cap on one end ( for service and repair ) and a sealed cap on the other to house it all and water proof the wires through it .. The outer tube would house everything FWBR's and all that's needed would be the positive and negative lead's sealed and running out from it .
It should be kinda like a shake lite.. IDK just something I was thinking about one day , trying to think of good uses for ball Neo's , LOL

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 09 2012 :  22:26:22  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello.

That is a great concept !!!

My girlfriend had an idea about sealing the FWBR in fiberglass resin to be like a solid state type component.

Your magnet idea is cool... Putting the magnets in a very thin wall plastic tube would eliminate the damage the sea water would do to the magnets.

To seal everything and make it fully function is the key, a lot of planning but enough right now to start putting coils together and see what magnets work best is a great starting point !!!

Cheers !!!

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 11 2012 :  16:57:48  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Just a different way is have a sealed tube with the magnets in it but have a rod lift up and down from the top with a silicone seal on the rod at the top and the tube lubed up with silicone. That takes out the salt water as a problem. Also the rod could be 2 rods one on each side to the float up to the top cross bar and then to the one rod to the magnets.
Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 14 2012 :  00:19:32  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guy's ,
How far past the coil does the stroke have to be to produce good current or more current ?
I was just thinking about that and am curious .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 14 2012 :  12:53:47  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

Just from one coil to another center to center

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 14 2012 :  23:27:09  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks 49er

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 15 2012 :  07:01:35  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Doug,

I am going to have a factory wind 20 coils as outlined at 1,000 wraps each with 24 AWG. That way all coils are exactly the same.

Before I give the thumbs up, should there be a space between each coil ? I was thinking 5 to 8mm... or should they be placed on top of each other.

The spools they have are a 25.4mm diameter (50mm long), that will allow me to slide them on and glue them secure to a very thin walled plastic tube (25.3mm OD) that the magnet tube can slide inside.

Anyway... this is a first step...

Alan

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 15 2012 :  16:00:28  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

If I could I would wind just one and pass a magnet through it to see what voltage you get with that wind and size magnet first. Then you will have a base line also you live on the water and can see chop hight and time up/down per minute to see how fast to pass the magnet in and out. The spool spacing will depend on how long the magnets are and how you arrange the ( n/n or n/s) I think n/s will give the best switching. We want to keep the switching distance for small chop to still make juice, I figure depending on your tests that movement of as little as 1 to 1 1/2 " would be a small chop. The length between the float and the bottom of the tube will be max wave hight before it gets slammed(stress to the hole unit). I am hoping for at least 1.2 volts per coil per magnet pass. 10 coils X 1.2v = 12 volts per wave so 20 coils could give you 24 volts wired the right way or double the amps in 12 volt mode. This are just my thoughts. let me know what you think??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 15 2012 :  22:44:59  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug,

I see your point.

Measure twice, cut once !!!

The magnets I have are cylinder style... 3/4 inch diameter by 1.75 inch long.

Time to test a few different things to get the best results... Never enough time in the day to do everything I want !!!

Alan

Go to Top of Page

Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 16 2012 :  14:26:42  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Alan,
If you go with the plunger type ( I'd still put a bump stop in the bottom, just to make failure more difficult ), see if you can find a boot to water proof it ... Something like a CV joint boot .. There are made to have like an acordian type movement and maintain waterproofing . If you use a seal also, then you can use a little marine grease inside the boot as an extra measure and to help give you notice of a hole in the boot .. These are just some thought's I had and wanted to see if you thought they'd help ya .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 16 2012 :  20:14:33  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good morning,

That is a great idea.

Today when I am in the office I will attempt to think of several methods to have a guide system so the coils are fixed to a mount and the magnet shaft has free and even movement.

The "boot" is a great way to keep it salt free !

Alan

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 16 2012 :  20:49:14  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Just don't work to hard and neglect your girl.. LOL Looking for your tests

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - April 17 2012 :  12:56:06  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug,

The little lady and I sat on the aft diving platform sharing a few bottles of wine tonight, and timmed the waves with an empty bottle.

The average time between the lowest point is a wave to the peak of a wave is 1.4 seconds, and then falls back to the lowest point. After a boat would pass the timing has a small fluctuation, but I would say 1.4 seconds is a standard to go with.

Your thoughts ?

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 17 2012 :  16:38:40  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

My guess is 3 to 4 " chop and that should be more than plenty to move the float like we need it. I thought that that would be the std. 5 out of 7 days IMHO to run your dock lights with wave action. All is just a guess from a coil flashlight I have and said the wave will do that day in day out. LOL looking forward to more info from you.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 23 2012 :  23:57:20  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My suggestion is that you do not make the coils of wire any thicker than 1.5X the width of the passing neodynium magnet, in a similar design consideration for a wind turbine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
Go to Top of Page

shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 02 2012 :  08:48:02  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad to see this topic up.... I am thinking of two things

First the flotation of the piston has quite a bit of pressure so I would use a lever system where the 3-4 inches can be translated into a greater movement. Also perhaps some sort of flap movement resistor that would make the piston float jump out of the water at once and then shoot back down into the water. Like a small light weight magnet on the bottom of the "piston" that will hold it under water til it was submersed in water for three inches and then lets go at once.

I was told that the faster the magnet moves passed the coil the more juice it creates relatively and waves are a bit slow. Also the side and more towards your boat will get more wave action I feel because the front tends to pitch up and down more that the back (especially while moving). Another idea I had was that if the float were one full wavelengeth out from your boat edge you would optimize the completion of the wave size.

BTW if that is a success maybe you can play with this idea. I would but there are no deep bodies of water around me. (away from the coast in australia.....

You must be logged in to see this link.
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  08:17:13  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good Evening,

On a calm day, the waves are still 3 to 4 inches of constant activity... even at the night time the sampans are running to vessels that are on swing moorings. The water taxi of asia !!!

Here is a video showing the water on a calm day... and you can see how they take the chinese sampan's out of the water to make repairs and put on new antifouling.

Keep in mind that in the video, I am standing on the main deck of the yacht and the cam is about 14 feet above the water line... Video is quite boring, but gives you an idea of the water movement on a calm day !



Thanks,

Alan



Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  09:16:03  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

That is exactly what I thought it would be like just small chop. When do you think you will have a demo up and running? I see a lot of boats. LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  10:24:17  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I have been busy with a clean beach project I have going You must be logged in to see this link. but next week I should a 3 coil 3 magnet sample together to see how to make it functional and what voltages I can get.

Wish we could put a few more hours in each day to do all the things I have planned LOL

Alan

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  12:34:02  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Looks like you have a lot of irons in the fire all at once. LOL Are you doing any good there with the clean up effort??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  20:32:53  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug,

We have many volunteers and really make a difference. We have been in the news papers and had radio interviews. The main issue is the lack of sponsors here. I mainly finance it.

Businesses all say they care about the environment, but when it comes time to actually support what they say... They seem to hide.

So many corporations from USA, Europe, UK, and Australia are set up over here and make so many profits, and use these beaches and add to the problem... But none care to give back to a community that has made them so rich !!

I love all these islands... If I have to carry the load, then I do all that I can to do something I have the ability to control !!!

Alan

Go to Top of Page

shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  21:43:15  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah HK growing up in Japan I saw a blatant disrespect for mother nature along the beaches(and pretty much everywhere else). Most beaches in Japan literally look like a dump with barely any visible sand. Now an average Japanese walking down main street will seldom litter even a piece of paper, but if you bring them out to nature they will throw away a 32 gallon trash bag out of their car. I found this very challenging to see in the asian cultures- there is a heavy disconnect from the land.

I am glad you are help providing a new perspective.
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 03 2012 :  22:25:18  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Shak,

In Hong Kong most of the trash washes into the water from the heavily populated area of Hong Kong island and the Kowloon side... tides and winds push the trash easterly (have been told it finds its way to the USA beaches of Hawaii and California.

Look at the picture below... how can people just overlook this !!! Seriously !!!

We do the best we can with what we have !!! SMILE



Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 04 2012 :  09:06:01  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Back on topic now...

Talking with Russ today, he had an idea of also trying a flat magnet and rectangular bobbin for the flat magnet...

Guess I have options now LOL.

I am starting with the standard coils and cylinder magnets as first thought... then option 2 LOL

if I follow the coil calculator I made on the IAEC website... hope the results are spot-on ! You must be logged in to see this link.

I will see how accurate that is as well...

Has anyone ever tried to use the coil calculator or other calculators I put on the IAEC website ???

You must be logged in to see this link.

Thanks,

Alan

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - May 04 2012 :  09:38:12  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

The magnets and coils I don't think will make a difference. The magnets will will be equal in a sq or round if the magnet field has the same gauss rating. Now the coil shape will make a large difference to a point, thickness of the coil will make the sharpness of the voltage for the movement of the magnet. In the long run 1000 turns is 1000 turns so IMHO whatever is the cheapest to build and make the voltage in a 3 to 4" chop is the only thing to deal with. I am going to make a 4" wheel to put a magnet on to go up and down in a coil of 1000 turns of 27ga and see what I get out of it. happy experimenting.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 04 2012 :  11:27:24  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Doug

I think I see what you are saying !

If the coil is narrow and has a wide diameter is better then say similar to a standard bobbin used on a SSG.

Interesting.... I never thought about that !!!

Thank you !!!

Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - May 04 2012 :  11:47:55  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Yes a 1/2" thick bobbin will give you a sharper on/off for the same voltage and that is about the only big difference between coils. That way if you have your stroke set for 4" in theories you could get 8 magnet passes per 1/2 wave per coil.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 04 2012 :  19:40:23  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
49er would the speed the magnets move matter in the end?
Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - May 05 2012 :  07:36:50  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi shak

Yes speed always matures as with any generator the more magnet passes the more power you produce.



Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 06 2012 :  04:38:19  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes but I mean in this case with the wave, where it moves slowly with the waves or you create some sort of "delay" where the bobbin(with the mags) pops out suddenly. Ie if it is going the same distance but one it going slow and one it doing it really fast.
Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - May 06 2012 :  15:28:21  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi shak

The speed is the same movement as HK said in his timing of the wave 1.4 sec from the bottom of the wave to the top is 1/2 wave at 1.4 so one full wave is 2.8 sec visualize that. Now the speed part see one magnet and one coil will equal 2 passes one going up and one on the way down and this wave is 4 to 6" bottom to top. That is your movement so take 6 magnets in that same 6" of movement so that make 12 passes on the same coil. So now make the coils 1/2" thick and stack them 6 high, so now with one wave you have speeded up the magnet and coil pulses to 36 on the way up and 36 on the way down per 2.8 sec and each pulse makes the voltage so we say speed = the pulse per seconds. Hope You can under stand my expiation.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
International Alternative Energy Center © 2000-2009 ForumCo.com Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.58 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000
RSS Feed 1 RSS Feed 2
Powered by ForumCo 2000-2008
TOS - AUP - URA - Privacy Policy
ForumCo Free Blogs and Galleries
Signup for a free forum or Go Banner Free