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 Growing Plants in the Dark
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screaminvern
Junior Member


USA
121 Posts

Posted - January 25 2013 :  07:54:22  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I started this project in either October or November of 2010; too much water has passed under the bridge to remember. I ran across Dr. T. Galen Hieronymous' work at the Rex Research site You must be logged in to see this link. (scroll to the bottom)
If you have never been to the Rex Research site go check it out; it has a ton of stuff.
For those who haven't seen my project, I have some pictures with a brief explanation.
This first picture shows the plate on the roof. The plate is insulated from the mounting bracket and has 5 coats of clear paint to protect it from rust. It has an 18 AWG speaker wire attached to it that runs down into the basement of the house.



In the basement I have a similar plate attached to the other end of the speaker wire and suspended over a planter. In the bottom of the planter I have a metal plate that is attached to an earth ground via an 18 AWG speaker wire. I enclosed the wooden frame to keep light out. Basically I just made a tall box out of it with access through the top.



I did not have a control with the first go at this project as I was very skeptical to begin with. 10 days after planting a tomato seed, I came home from school and had the surprise of my life. The photo below is the tomato sprout and is the first time the sprout had light on it.



The tomato died a few days later with the same signs indicated by Dr. Hieronymous as if it had received too much energy. I made another wooden box for a control side and repeated the experiment. This time I used potatoes as we live in Idaho USA with potatoes growing out our ears and my girl friend didn't want me using the tomato seeds.
Below is the control side of the experiment and I know we've all seen potatoes do this in storage at our houses:



This is the experiment side with the plates. Notice how the plant is growing upwards with well formed stalks. The stalks did not turn green, however, the leaves clearly show chlorophyll being produced.





I will be doing another "growing plants in the dark" experiment this year but will take some time to get under way as I am enrolled in 14 credits this semester. None the less, this project has opened my mind concerning the mysteries of energy surrounding our lives on planet Earth. See ya later tater:)



{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - January 25 2013 :  16:46:17  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You had this posted up in teep yea? I remember reading your work


_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011


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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - January 25 2013 :  18:49:20  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kultus, yes I did have it at TEEP, but was unable to access it as I got the "boot" like many of you here. Deepcut asked if I would post a thread of my past project.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - January 26 2013 :  04:19:05  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I only brought this up on a topic a few weeks ago but could not for the life of me remember who posted it back on teep ... and same as you couldn't access as I got the major ass from there asking CW to prove his device lol .... I'll be all ears to the ground for further results

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011


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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 26 2013 :  18:01:40  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interesting! And will, as I have time research this some more.

I start my seasonal planting under grow lighting, condition them and move them outside. Kinda a twelve step program...

In your experience, can you grow to 'fruit', indoors, without natural light?



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - January 26 2013 :  21:08:18  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never have tried to see if I could "grow to fruit" with artificial light. I used to start my plants with grow lights like you do but I grew tired of the conditioning process. We have a south facing window in the garage that allows sun for the better part of the day, so we just start everything on the work bench in front of the window.
Are you thinking about trying it? If you do, would you post your progress as I would be interested in following it.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - February 16 2013 :  08:14:15  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by screaminvern

I never have tried to see if I could "grow to fruit" with artificial light. I used to start my plants with grow lights like you do but I grew tired of the conditioning process. We have a south facing window in the garage that allows sun for the better part of the day, so we just start everything on the work bench in front of the window.
Are you thinking about trying it? If you do, would you post your progress as I would be interested in following it.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}



I do hope to run an experiment as I start-up again this season.
Thought is to run a side by side to compare growth.

I hope to allow some to continue growth indoors and just see what happens.

I had some difficulty on the linked site finding the information I was hoping for..
Could you, since you obviously found it yourself, link me (us) more directly to the area of interest.

I have quite a few assumptions I would like to validate.
Like plate sizes, wire sizing, distance to plant,,,

Again, very interesting post and thank you for passing!

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - February 16 2013 :  09:24:04  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi olddawgsrule, the growing plants in the dark article is the very last article on that link I posted at the top of this thread. The title is: "Conducting Chlorophyll Energy over Wires" by Dr. T. Galen Hieronymous.

The article is pretty concise and here is the actual info listed for the plate sizes: "The plates on the platform were all different in size. The smallest was 2" X 4", the next 4" X 8", the largest was about 8" X 10" and one plate was copper screen wire (Hieronymous)."

That's about it for the plate info given in the article besides the diagrams. I just took the info from the article and ran with it paying special attention to Dr. Hieronymous' warning:

"A friend tried to duplicate the experiment, but did not follow all instructions. Their basement was only about 3 feet from the basement floor to the ground level outside.

Instead of placing the outside plates above ground 6 feet, they laid on the ground, thus they did not have the potential differences between outside collector and inside boxes and the experiment was a failure. Also, there was a window near that let much light into where the boxes were placed.

Anyone who expects to duplicate an experiment should be sure they know all the factors and that they follow the instructions exactly without any substitution or change. And as to changes, if you are trying to get a special result and are trying out several methods or ideas, one of the cardinal points to doing good work is to make just one change at a time (Hieronymus)."


I hope this helps ODR.

Here is another link regarding Dr. Hieronymus' work on this:
You must be logged in to see this link.

Works Cited: Hieronymus, Dr. Thomas G. ""Conducting Chlorophyll Energy over Wires" ." THOMAS G. HIERONYMOUS Eloptic Energy. REX Research Site, n.d. Web. 16 Feb. 2013. <You must be logged in to see this link.


{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}

Edited by - screaminvern on February 16 2013 10:04:44
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - February 24 2013 :  13:20:05  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's pretty funny.. I just did some research and ended up right where you where putting me!

Also found this article; You must be logged in to see this link.

In this article he talks of an experiment;
DETERMINING THE RADIONIC SELECTIVITY OF PLANTS
MATERIALS:

1 or more Micronta Biosensors (Radio Shack)*
2 Extension wires with soldered copper electrodes
Several plants
Large plastic drinking cups
Ringstand with rubberized clamp
1 2#8243; C-clamp
Copper ground rod
Several stage variable capacitor (medium to large volume)
Long extension wires
Wire stripper


Really?
RonO has done an excellent job for us about capacitors!
But...
Capacitors can work energetically?
Not just electrically..

I do hope you read this one RonO!!!

The though that bothered me as I read through the research was the spacing or amount of energy being passed and control of the same.
Most failure came from too little or too much energy.

Some sort of hanging, adjustable plate to move as plants grow.
Kinda what I do with my grow lights.
Then my mind went wild...

First though went to resisters, but we're not talking electrical...
Then I saw that article...

SC, you really have my mind workin' here!
Thank you for passing something new!
I love it!!



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - February 25 2013 :  19:46:28  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're welcome ODR! I enjoy this project as much as anything else I've done and I share your enthusiasm totally. Even though Hieronymous did this 70 some years ago, this is so much on the fringe of science that most people think I'm feeding them bull*%!t when I talk about it and then they go out of their way to avoid even saying hi to me LOL! I used to live in the "box" with them, but I crawled out when I hit my 40's and now at 53 I'm not going back in.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - February 26 2013 :  14:25:34  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern.

When I saw this topic was still active, I decided to do a little test.
I grow rhubarb in my garden and I noticed they were starting to grow again.
I covered the plants with a black bucket to force them.
They are getting no light under the bucket. I will be removing the bucket in a few days to check their condition.
I am curious to see what color they will be when I do. It might be something to compare against your findings.
I will post my findings when the bucket is removed.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 05 2013 :  17:47:21  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well now... Your season has already started!
I'm still snow covered and looking at some more!
4-8" from what I'm seeing...

It's syrup time now.. being Maple style..
Temps are good for production.
Little scared I went early, but.. temps are right..
And they ain't going in the dark!
For several reasons, LOL!

St Patty's Day is traditional for starting our seeds.
I do plan on starting most traditionally, yet a few of these will undergo this idea.

Still two weeks away for me.
Yet seeds are ready!

I will also post up as this continues.


quote:
Originally posted by IrishDave

Hi Vern.

When I saw this topic was still active, I decided to do a little test.
I grow rhubarb in my garden and I noticed they were starting to grow again.
I covered the plants with a black bucket to force them.
They are getting no light under the bucket. I will be removing the bucket in a few days to check their condition.
I am curious to see what color they will be when I do. It might be something to compare against your findings.
I will post my findings when the bucket is removed.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - March 07 2013 :  11:47:27  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@ Dave: Have you taken the bucket off yet?

@ ODR: I hear ya, we're still having snow too but we've warmed up so the snow doesn't last. I'm waiting for a new roof to be installed before I can get the project under way, but as far as the gardening goes, we are going to get seeds started hopefully next weekend.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}

Edited by - screaminvern on March 07 2013 21:54:39
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - March 08 2013 :  06:09:08  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern.

I did take a peek, but there was very little growth in general.
It had not rained here in nearly 3 weeks and now we have a week of rain due (started on Wednesday).
Only after the first few hours of rain and we are almost flooded again.
I will be checking again next week and will post my findings.
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 08 2013 :  15:10:28  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys

I have just read the borderlands link as posted by Olddawgsrule , hmmmm. Needs more thought

Just a few facts :-

Capacitors do not allow the flow of Direct Current

A tuned circuit requires an inductor and a capacitor ( a straight piece of wire does have inductance )

The distance between an emitter plate and collector ( "plate" / plant / moist soil etc ) will have an effect on the value of the capacitor thus formed.

It would be "normal" to assume that the dielectric ( in this case the gas between the plates ) is air , but is this the case ( C02 balance etc )

-----------------

What about "pure" electromagnet fields ? if you were to wrap a few turns of insulated wire around the "box" that shields the plant from sunlight / light and them either apply a steady audio frequency , what would be the effect ?

Same setup again but this time drive the coil with the output of a music source

This could then be repeated without the emitter plate being connected

ron
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - March 08 2013 :  23:35:45  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love your style Ron. How many turns would you consider "a few", and what size of wire? I have 18 AWG, 30 AWG, and 34 AWG.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 09 2013 :  14:38:39  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern

I guess that it could be calculated but it would involve several variables ( required field strength :- this is related to area and volume of test chamber , driver circuit power:- again related to field strength etc )

Go for 18 AWG , space the turns about 1/8 inch apart , number of turns = approx height of plant ( at least 100 turns )

Let me know :- approx coil diameter , coil length ( height ) and DC resistance of coil

forgot ! actual number of turns

ron

Edited by - ron_o on March 10 2013 19:11:41
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 12 2013 :  17:18:58  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern ,

Found this link on EER forum , short article on effect of electric field on plant growth.


You must be logged in to see this link.

ron
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 13 2013 :  15:58:47  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern

A little more "digging" ( sorry ) on the net and i found a follow up article :-

You must be logged in to see this link.

If you do consider building it then use a cmos op amp in place of the 741

ron
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - March 17 2013 :  00:06:48  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Ron!!! The amount of help you give all over this forum is priceless.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 17 2013 :  08:43:05  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dido!!

quote:
Originally posted by screaminvern

Thanks Ron!!! The amount of help you give all over this forum is priceless.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 17 2013 :  17:48:35  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys

Thank you both .... i do believe i'm blushing , lol

ron

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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 17 2013 :  18:53:06  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern

A couple of links to detecting electrical signals in plants :-


You must be logged in to see this link.

You must be logged in to see this link.

ron
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - April 06 2013 :  14:07:19  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I patiently wait for the roofer to come and replace the roof on our house so I can restart the "growing plants in the dark project", I run across articles like the one I posted below concerning the "war on drugs" program.

I have to wonder, because of the nature of my experiments, if I am being monitored with a suspicious eye due to the fact I have freely posted my experiment publicly for anyone to see and read.

When I share my project with someone, 90% of the first response from people is, "Are you growing pot?". This can only come from the constant bombardment of the "war on drugs" seen on the daily news broadcasts. There are those few who encompass the same "what" and "why" questions I have regarding the mystery of Dr. T. Galen Hieronymous' work.

My mind "does not" ponder the possibilities for using this project for illegal activities. What my mind does ponder over is, what energy source is transferring through the plates. One of my classes this semester is Water Quality, so another idea that has popped into my mind about this project is, could whatever energy source transferring through the plates become an economically useful segment for the process in waste water treatment?

I will say this for the record, I have not, am not, and will not use this experiment for the growth or production of any illegal circumstances.

The reason I posted this is because of the article in the link below:

You must be logged in to see this link.



{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - August 11 2013 :  18:02:11  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So... hired a roofer back in February or March who was a long time friend of mine. His wife got sick and they wound up with medical bills. We wanted to help then out by giving him some work. After he gave us a bid, we wrote him a $5000.00 check so he could get the materials to get started. Haven't heard from him, can't get a hold of him, and no one knows where he is. Hmmmmmm... so much for trying to help someone out. I know, I know, shouldn't have wrote the check in the first place, but we thought we were helping.

Now we have another guy coming over next weekend to put on a new roof. This has been an expensive lesson.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 12 2013 :  17:56:59  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry to hear the tale SV,,
As a tradesman, it's hard to hear these stories.
As a Dad, Uncle, Friend, of the same situations,,,
Also hard to hear...

It's tough having a good heart..
Looks like you have one!

Hopefully this will work out...


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - August 13 2013 :  04:02:24  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It will work out OD. That's just the way it is some times. I think now I'm more upset because we were good friends of 30 some years. Anyway, I need to get the basement corner setup so when the roof is complete all I have to do is remount the plate on the roof.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - September 15 2013 :  10:25:24  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, we have a new metal roof. I'm not going to mount anything on it, but I am going to find a place to attach a wire (heh,heh)... anyway, I'm going to put the original metal plate and a copper plate on some sort of a mast, maybe PVC.

So, a question for all you who are in the know: I will have three wires coming in from the plates, do I need three different grounds, or will the one ground I have work for all three?

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - September 16 2013 :  18:00:10  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Vern

Glad your starting your project back up

Simple answer is yes , you only need the one ( original ? ) ground

Reason:- it is , under certain circumstances for a potential difference to exist between earth "stakes" . By using just one earth "stake" this effect is eliminated

PVC .... if you do use the white type , i have known the black type to conduct ( due to the carbon based black pigment used to provide the colour )

If you intend to place your other receiving plates above the new metal roof remember to allow sufficient distance between plate and roof to eliminate any chance of forming a capacitor

All the best

ron

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - September 16 2013 :  21:28:10  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That helps a ton, thanks Ron! :)

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 17 2013 :  17:32:00  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was going to pipe in on this yesterday, but, I now know RonO is listening and better advise will come (if you build it, He will come..LOL, sorry for the Movie reference..)

I felt a singular ground made sense, but a 'potential difference' is a new thought.
And I can see now how (with my limited knowledge), how this could occur.

What I never thought of, is the chance of creating a capacitor in the process!
Oh my!
This RonO, we may have to discuss on the 'Learning about capacitors' thread..

You're in the lead here SC!








Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - September 17 2013 :  18:58:11  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR! It'll be nice when I learn more about how things work with electricity which will be a little later this semester, but untill then, I have the best knowledge base anyone could ask for right here :)

I never thought about the posibility of an air cap forming between the plates and the roof.


{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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rheandros
New Member



Germany
15 Posts

Posted - October 16 2013 :  13:08:05  Show Profile Send rheandros a Private Message  Reply with Quote
HI all,
What i had tried is the effect of a bifilar pancake coil on water. It was really interesting, have to alter my setup so i don't have to do it mechanicly....
But what recognised, is one thing. When I connect the coil on one end of the of the spiral copper tube where the water goes through and on the other end it is far more effective. I consider to read schauberger, because water was his speciality.
The funny thing is I just put a coil under a cup of coffee and a good friend of mine considered the coffee more tasty and smoother...
I recognised the same effect as of very cost intensive energy amplifier for food and water.
awg24 d=24cm
Put it on your car, you will see ;)

What if you put a bifilar pancake in exchange of earth?
and in parrallel and or serial?
just ideas
cu rheandros

Light to Light

Edited by - rheandros on October 16 2013 13:11:20
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - October 17 2013 :  15:37:59  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi rheandros and thank you for your input! I have been reading about energizing water with frequincies, and in a conversation with slider2732 about using a pancake coil, he stated that 36ft is full wave and coiling to that exact length is definitely worth a try. My only problem at the moment is time. I still need to get the plates for my "growing plants in the dark" project elevated above the roof, and I juat haven't decided the best way to accomplish this. I can't attach anything to the new metal roof (as requested by the Ms.).

I purchased a little frequency generator kit from Electronics-DIY.com
You must be logged in to see this link.
I want to use it in a series of experiments for my project which some do involve a pancake coil.

Hey rheandros, if you haven't posted anything here on your experiments, I and many others here would like to see what you,ve done.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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Karen Stogz
New Member



USA
13 Posts

Posted - April 19 2017 :  09:28:36  Show Profile Send Karen Stogz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is really cool and interesting, haven't tried this yet
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - April 20 2017 :  17:14:54  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread needed a bump! Thank you Karen!

I failed, but would also like know how SC, et all, made out on it?



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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