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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 22 2012 :  21:38:40  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kc
Although it is a lister I'm getting, it's not a diesel- it's a gasoline modle
Not to many lister gas engines about, so I was lucky
What I want to work out is dose 100ml of HHO gas do the same amount of work that 100ml of LPG dose in an ICE?
I want to set up the engine to run on LPG and get a flow meter to measure the amount of LPG it take to run the engine at a set rpm and load
So that way if HHO dose the same work as LPG per ml, then I will know how much HHO I need per minute at that rpm and load

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 22 2012 :  22:32:50  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok. I'll assume you are not talking about LPG, which is a liquid... rather the vapor that is used by volume in the engine it is ran in.

A rather tricky question. Gasoline is a bit easier to research, for example it takes 90 - 91 liters of HHO (vapor) to equal the energy content of one tablespoon of Gasoline (liquid).

So we need to compare energy densities / energy content of LPG. I'll think about that some more.

Cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 22 2012 :  23:18:41  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The total enthalpy, H, of a system cannot be measured directly. Thus, change in enthalpy, H, is a more useful quantity than its absolute value. The change H
is positive in endothermic reactions, and negative in heat-releasing exothermic processes.

Hydrogen gas (dihydrogen or molecular hydrogen) is highly flammable
and will burn in air at a very wide range of concentrations between 4% and 75% by volume. The enthalpy of combustion for hydrogen is -286 kJ/mol

2 H2(g) + O2(g) = 2 H2O + 572 kJ (286 kJ/mol)

Oxygen itself is not the fuel, but the oxidant.

Propane undergoes combustion to form water and carbon dioxide (in the presence of excess oxygen, anyway).
C3H8 + 5 O2 = 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + heat

The enthalpy of combustion for 2202.0 kJ/mol for propane.

According to the ideal gas law, one mole of any gas will occupy 22.4 L at a pressure of 1 atm and a temperature of 0C

The above are ideal though, and we do also know that ICE's are far from ideal. Hydrocarbons when combusted lose A LOT of that energy to heat - their "explosive" nature is one thing and "the ball of fire" is another. I can tell you I blew up 8l of HHO, and I never even saw a fireball, it was like a flash of light and a sonic boom. try recreating that with propane. engines actually run cooler on hydrogen.

I would say 40-50l per minute is a good basis for a small ICE if and when only HHO is used mixed with air.

for every stroke you'll need more HHO than you needed propane, but then again, you'll get a higher explosive force for every mole... so it'll be a balance.

The real question is can you make 8 kW of genny output, without needing 8 kW of electricity to make the fuel, which is why myself and most look more towards having a litre or two going in, combined with an alternative fuel.

But hats off to the guy that can get double the energy out, than the energy needed for the fuel in, as to actually "gain". It'll take more than simple, normal, electrolysis, tho!




~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 22 2012 23:33:12
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 22 2012 :  23:20:01  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kc
LPG is stored as a liquid under pressure, but once released from the pressure vessel it becomes a gas
I am referring to the gas as LPG couldn't enter an engine as a liquid- thus why it's called liquid petroleum gas
So I'm looking at 100ml of gas and 100ml of HHO- will they do the same work?
I have looked all over the net, but can't find some sort of comparison

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 22 2012 :  23:55:04  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@tinman

displace a one litre bottle with LPG till its full, and setup a way to add a controlled volume of air (in containment) and ignite it, (without adding extra air). Do the same with HHO. See how far the ram is driven. didn't Russ have something like that? maybe he could do a comparison that would shed some light on it all.

I think the crazy thing about it is... if chemistry is correct, there is actually a lot more hydrogen in a gallon (or given volume) of hydrocarbon, than there is in a gallon of hydrogen. Because of the alignment of atoms and their dilectric nature to be "bunched" together (the individual molecules i mean).

thats how i see it. which is why you want it as an additive, and not a "complete and total fuel source" - that is - unless you can produce tons of it overunity....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 23 2012 00:45:19
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  08:54:11  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just some info i have so far-that i would like you guys to check to make sure i havnt made any mistakes.

LPG ratio to run an ICE in gas state is--15.8:1.Now this one i know,because that is one of the things i must know as a mechanic when tuneing engine's.
LPG from liquid state exspands 274 time when it turns to a gas state.1 litre of liquid=274 liters of gas.
1 liquid litre of LPG has 28.7 megajoules of energy,so 1 litre of lpg in gas state is 28700000/274 which equals 104744 joules of energy.

Now as far as i can find out,1 litre of HHO gas contains only 8040 joules of energy???
Im hopeing this is wrong,or we are going to need 13 times more HHO gas than LPG gas to do the same work??

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  15:15:54  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@tinman...

When you got me going on this topic, I was certain that HHO (only from physical experience / experiments) contained more energy per litre, but if you look at your numbers and mine, that's correct, conventional physics tells us that because a contained amount of LPG vapor actually contains a lot more hydrogen, than a similar contained amount of H2 gas (odd huh?) - yeah, it would seem to be the case. Your examination of contained energy, though, is only one aspect. As I see it, anyway, an explosion and a fire are two different things. We are after explosive work done. I think of it like this: The instant that a fuel is ignited you get that boom, that explosion, that force. Anything after is a waste in our goal. In an ICE, if there were no energy wasted to the "burn" aspect, our tailpipes would be relatively clean, all the time, and there would be, essentially no visible exhaust. That clearly is not the case, and in my mind has to be significant in the discussion of how inefficient these fuels are: 20% - 45% is a typical number thrown around. Much of the energy is lost to heat, because the flamespeed is so slow, as I see it. so, the beauty of a fossil fuel is the "locked up" hydrogen in those hydrocarbons. The downside is that the carbon works against you in the formation of CO after the fact. So then, a modern engine tries to some extent to recycle the CO back into the fuel, to lower emissions, but in doing so changes the ratio, once again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 23 2012 15:19:37
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  15:43:02  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TinMan I am not so sure that 1 liter of HHO gas yeilds only 8040 joules of energy because it can change so drasticly one way or another. This can depend on temperture when the gas is being made, the quality of the reactor making the gas and it's travel before being injected. In addition there are several ways to inhance the gas to super high levels while it's being made and after. Like using magnetics and fequencey are just to name a few and I will tell you the sky is the limit depending how far you want to take it. I have made gas so powerful that filled only a small pill bottle but explosion was like a full liter. My point being is build the perfect reactor and setup first and you can add the octain goodies while testing. ;)"D"
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  16:07:35  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Darrell

I agree. It's a touchy subject, but.. not all HHO is equal, and I've seen it too. I found that my best gas (quality) came after all my electrolyte was inherent (fuel running clean). I experimented with media scrubbing until my flame was very nearly invisible. Produced slow, as opposed to pounding the gas out. Temperature of reactor, low. I have no doubt that the gas at that point was better then when I pounded it out with 20% elyte, elyte in the tank still.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  17:40:57  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well guy's-i am at a loss as to how there can be diferent HHO ??
HHO is HHO-is it not?
Only when you get the likes of steam mixed with it if your cell is running to hot,would it change.
But as far as i can find,pure HHO only has 8040 of energy.
Now the other problem is,like you say-hho has a faster burn rate.
Now this may be good in the way of little lost to heat,but bad because the explosive force is so short-thus applying a downward push on the pistion for a shorter period of time.

Then there is the reformation problem,where that force is reversed,and we get a vacume effect within the cylender-and this we dont want.
In an engine that is hotter,the problem wouldnt be so bad,as the reformed HHO would probably remain as steam until it condenced at the end of the exaust pipe.

In the run time test i did,like in the video-1/2 a litre of HHO a minute made some diference.
I have repeated this test many times under diferent load's,and the results remain the same.
Now remembering that the cell is a not so good cell,we defently have room to improve the system.
Also the engine is wrong for the aplication.
We need a slow reving engine with high torque,not a high reving engine with low torque.
HP is not what we need,torque is what it takes to turn a load.This is were many make mistakes when choosing an engine to do a certain job.
It's always-more horse power-more horse power,when what is needed is more torque.

Now the engine i am getting today has very little HP,but big on the torque--perfect for the job.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  17:49:37  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well if you are interested in compinsating for this by changing the elite mix a bit then we can slow the burn rate a bit in turn making a more potent gas at the same time. The output would not change though just the gas structor because of the differnt elements added. You interested?
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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  18:13:36  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hey tinman. i ran some test also, using just batterys , i blasted the cell, ran some vapor into plastic tube, took it off a sparker it with a lighter, had a decent pop, then i tried the same amount when i ran the solid state to make the hho, same amount of gas in tube, sparked it off, much greater improved pop, or should of i said explosion, from what i have been told there are at least two grades of hydrogen.


Skype user name: SD3Txxx
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  18:23:04  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Darrell
I just so happen to have a water fogger aswell lol.
Once up and running,i will add some fog to the engine and see what happens.
As we know,your car engine will always have more power on a cold foggy morning.
But i am open to all sugestions.

SD-as far as i know,there is only one grade of HHO that is made by useing electrolisis-this being ofcourse you dont get steam going through the system.
I mean HHO is 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen-so i dont see how this can change unless we add the inpuraties our self??

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  18:59:16  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
just like they have differnt grades of gasoline for your car, there is differnt grades of hydrogen, depending on how and what you use to make the Hydrogen dictates the quality of the end product.


Skype user name: SD3Txxx
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  20:30:27  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TinMan we can also negetively charge the air/fog going into the intake also. Put together a ionizing circuit as the old air purifier machines. I know allot of people doing this with HHO and getting much better results too. (Must keep the negetive charged air separate from the HHO or it will go BOOM!!!)LOL
The experts are reporting that it takes injecting HHO to a hole new level when both are being applied.

With the tubes you will also make a bit better gas due to the coil effect of having one tube inside the other. put magnets on the inside and outside of the tubes and then test the gas. Then if you want to take it one step further then wrap the magnets with paper tape and magnet wire and hook it up to a fequencey generator. You can also do the same thing to the gas tubes them selves.

I have also a great recipe for changes to the elite. The new elite mix along is crazy powerful on it's own. Now we are talking about pulling out all the stops Hee Hee.

Lets through the bank at this thing as Sd does to his transisters Hee Hee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  21:04:38  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds good Darrell
First step- pick up motor lol
Second step- get motor going- may need complete rebuild- that's one day gone lol
3rd step- fuel consumption test running in normal mode
Rest of steps to be sorted after that lol
Last step- board plane to my new home in the Bahamas lol

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  21:10:03  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As much as I like to joke around, my first goal will be to achieve a 20% efficiency gain
By this time I will have an idea as to what works and what dosnt
I think with all our combined knowledge we will hit 40% in no time
And the good thing is, we will all be learning together along the way

I think we may get some flack from the skeptics lol, but my test will be proven test only, no fairy tails about HHO cells that have wildly high MMWs
What we see will be exactly what we have

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  21:27:58  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Darrell

Well if you are interested in compinsating for this by changing the elite mix a bit then we can slow the burn rate a bit in turn making a more potent gas at the same time. The output would not change though just the gas structor because of the differnt elements added. You interested?



very interesting. Stan meyer talked about this too
@Tinman 20% is a good first goal. i was certain, absolutely without a DOUBT, positively CERTAIN I had 30% gain. many arguments later, i caved in to my bud's, got 3 dynamo tests: results: 15% gain. stationary motors should be easier to measure.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 23 2012 21:33:18
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  21:52:36  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i just wanted to know, and I learned two things: 1. it worked 2. Driving around won't tell you *Nice*

If you had a nice long open piece of highway, with a fuel station at the start, and it was say 60 miles long, and if you filled your tank to the point of spilling on the concrete, and you had cruise control or a very steady foot... that might be reasonable, too. But doing as i did, initially, averaging mileage over 1/2 tank fills, (after having done 3 BEFORE tests), I personally did 18 tests and took an average, that's a bogus way to go about it.

Edited by - kcarring on November 23 2012 22:15:23
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  23:40:54  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My test will be carried out in much the same way i did the first test that convinced me that HHO works.
The only diference will be that i will be useing a modified 150 amp altinator insted of my old generator.
This will be fully current adjustable while maintaining the set rpm.
I will also have a set load being driven from one leg of the altinator,while the remaining two legs will provide the current for the cells.

If this proves not to work,i will then machine up a new shaft for the old generator,and drive it via v belt(which i dont like to do as there a loss).

But anyway-im off to collect the motor now.So see ya'll in a couple of hours.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  06:14:42  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i have the motor,and seems there was a bit of a mistake on behalf of the guy i bought it of.
The engine is actualy a diesle,not a gasoline engine.
Condition-well i'll let the video speak for itself lol.
Lets just say,it wont be going tomorow.
Video uploading now.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  06:18:48  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well here is the motor-rust and all lol.
Although it is a diesle,we can convert it back to gas quite easy.



swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  09:49:51  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
shot this video after 3 hours at it.
Was quite supprised to find that all the nuts and bolts come undone quite easy--with the help of a rattle gun.



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skype-thetinman.69
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  11:10:24  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that is a cool motor :) I saw the rebuild kits online and they were fairly cheap. Lets fire that thing up LOL
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  11:50:42  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh it will get fired up lol.
But first i must fix the big end bearing-if i can find one?
If not,i may have to modify it some how.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  12:14:14  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Try this link
You must be logged in to see this link.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  20:45:05  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Darrell
Thanks for that link--man those parts are so cheap.
You can even get modern day engine parts that cheap.

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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  21:59:15  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's what I thought too. I might have to buy a lister also.

Edited by - Darrell on November 24 2012 23:44:50
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  02:23:39  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found some useful info on the lister 6/1 or 12/1 motor which you seem to have there. either motor is quite efficient using only 2 gallons of fuel every 10 hours while driving 3200 watt load that can be ran 24/7. Most people run a 5 or 6K generator. Below is the link I found the info. Cheers "D"
You must be logged in to see this link.

Edited by - Darrell on November 25 2012 02:32:44
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  03:02:49  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Darrell
Mine is a CS 5/1--3.5HP.


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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  03:17:21  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still cool none the less. Can't wait to see how she runs. Up late doing some homework LOL....
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  03:24:15  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well decisions had to be made today.
Injector pump is shot beyond repair,along with the injector itself.
Seems it had a belly of water go through the whole fuel system,and everything is pitted with rust.

So i had to decide weather to buy the new part's,or go for the gas conversion.
After haveing a close look at what it would take to convert it to LPG,i found that it was going to be very simple.

The spark plug just so happens to be the same size as the injector-so that part was easy.
The points or microswitch to run the ignition system can be opperated by the push rod that use to opperate the injector pump-and we will be able to adjust the timeing aswell.
As i already have the 12 volt solinoid for the gas injection,and also the timer for gas pulse duration-this just seems to be the way to go.

I also have the 2.5psi LPG regulator and flash back arrestor for the project,along with the flow meter.
The good thing is that we dont have to modify the engine at all,so we can always go back to original if i ever come accross the parts i need.

So as i was actualy looking for a gasoline engine to start with-we might aswell continue down this path.
Also wouldnt mind giveing this wood gas a go in the future,and for this we need a spark system.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  17:22:00  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like you have it all worked out and will be able to change timing and fuel rates as needed for the HHO and other testing. Hopefully it won't cost to much more to convert the rest. Can't wait to see the test results. ;) "D"
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  20:56:32  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Tinman From What I've read you can replace diesel with woodgas, up to about 70-80% and some guys make that 20-30% up with WMO, biodiesel, WCO, in the summer, or even diesel made from plastic garbage in the winter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  23:09:27  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@ Kyle
Yea I have been watching just about every video on YouTube about them lol

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 26 2012 :  09:42:27  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well after some more reserch,i found that i have a CS-3/1.
Turns out that this one is quite rare,and a collectable.
You must be logged in to see this link.

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  17:36:11  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just an update on the lister project


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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  00:43:47  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Looks like your making some good progress there TM. Get all your parts ordered?
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  06:43:40  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Darrell
I got the big end shells orded,and that is all i will need(at the moment)
Now there is one vital part needed that i cant order-and that be a decent HHO cell lol
Now i know this bloke that has a realy good design for a cell-he even sent me a teaser video lol.

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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  11:05:43  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought you were going to put together the tube cells for this project. If not maybe I can put one of my dry cells together if you twist my arm a little. LOL
The one you seen in the video is to small for what you are trying to do. We need a reactor with bigger plates so it can handle the amps your generator puts out. With the rpm's down to 650 this may change the amps on the geni. Your thoughts?

"D"
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  17:37:10  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Darrell
The amps on the geni wont change as it will be geared up from the motor--3:1
So when motor is doing say 600rpm,the geni will be doing 1800 rpm.
In the video of it makeing and running on HHO+ fuel,it is doing around 1500rpm.
So rpm-no problem.

In reguards to the tube cells,way to many will be required to produce enough HHO to do what we need to do.
So what we need is a nice big Darrell cell lol.
Im thinking 2 ltr's a minute would be a good start.

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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  18:37:10  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hmmm darrell has a little cell that does way over 2LPM lol. cant wait to see the big one!


Skype user name: SD3Txxx
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  01:25:21  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Tinman Are you going to make AC or DC? Ever see those honda's that do both? Of course, not at the same time LOL

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You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  05:52:42  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@ Kyle
I will be useing my little 1940's generator,so it will be DC
Most ac generators these days have the 12 volt DC out aswell,but only at about 10 amps max.
The ww2 generator will pump out 24 volts at 50 amp's no problem--this is as far as i have tested it so far.
I think it would go 36 volt's at 25 amps if i lift the rev's up to around 2000rpm.

@ SD
Yes im hopeing Darrell will donate some plans or something that will do the trick lol.
Sooooooo-Darrell????????? lol

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  11:17:22  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TinMan, I am willing to donate a test cell but in order to set it up I will need to know the steady volts and amps range you will be running it at. That way we can build the best cell with the right amount of plates. We are looking to keep each cell around 2 to 2.25 volt per cell gap to get the best results. Once the cell warms up you should be able cut the volts down to around 1.90 per gap using the current control and or PWM on the WW2 generator. At around 2 to 2.25 I can get the cell over 6MMW. Anything higher than 2.5 volts per cell and the reactor will make less gas and could over heat.

Now I am thinking we should keep it simple like around 15 or 16 plates. This way we stay under 16 volts no more than 40 amps. This would give you an output range well over 3 Lpm.

Your thoughts? "D"


Edited by - Darrell on November 29 2012 11:35:14
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  15:13:02  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Darrell

On that topic, do know of any reading material that discusses how to calculate a cells power source in terms of open circuit reading, plate area, etc. I am trying to convert my cell from 13.8VDC over to 58-61 plate 110VAC/rectified. I'm trying to figure out given mains voltage (here it is typically 119VAC) - how many plates I'll need to use. I have all the plates. Cheers

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You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  16:58:26  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can't find very much info out there due to the danagers involved with high voltage and high output hho. The builders that build high voltage units have there privite groups and don't talk outside them. I will send you a email with some info.

Hope this helps. "D"
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  18:24:58  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Darrell
As i can turn the current up or down i can then alter the amount of electrolite to lift or drop the voltage accross the cell plates.
But if 40 amps at 16 is a good starting point-then that is no problem.
So lets go with that-although the generator will do much more than that.
And to donate a cell is just fantastic.
Now 3 ltr's a minute would be fantastic at an MMW of 6.

Now a little information for you all.I decided to just stick a hose on that fogger,and just stick it in the intake of my little motor generator setup-and guess what--a big rise in rpm(when i say big i mean 300 rpm)
This was without the HHO running,as i ran out of time to test any further.
But now i know one more thing that will help in the setup.
So all is starting to come together.

My goal now is to get the lister up and running-as i see this as a very good prime mover.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  18:30:00  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One other thing i will be trying,is to remove that heavy wound inductor inside the ontrol box-as i see that just resisting or limiting the flow of current.
I also think it may smooth out most of the high voltage pulses that we are getting from the generator.
It just seems to be one more loss in the system that we can eliminate.

But it may also have the complete opposite effect aswell-but only time will tell.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  21:32:07  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh and if it's of any use, I can peg that 60 amp meter at 12 volts when engine is doing 1800 rpm
Output at the rated speed of the generator(2800 rpm) is as yet unknown

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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