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kcarring
Moderator


Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 11 2012 :  22:51:39  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Been Studying this document:

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And looking at these magnets:

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 11 2012 22:53:29

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USA
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - November 12 2012 :  17:58:35  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kyle

Nice magnets but not the best shape , you need magnets with a large surface area for best results. If you haven't already seen the Otherpower.com website it's well worth a visit.

ron
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 12 2012 :  19:56:13  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hey ron, i agree with your statement to a degree. Ive read over Hughs Document... you need magnets with the surface area that matches the coils, and the turbine blade...(I'd say)... and my first one is going to be small, a 25 watt - 50 watt unit...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - November 13 2012 :  16:55:58  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kyle

I know that you most likely already know the following information but i've written the reasons down to assist anyone else reading this topic who is thinking of building a wind generator

The problem is that ( forgeting rotational velocity for the moment ) the output is directly proportional to the number of coil turns / coil area and the strength of the magnet ( flux density )

The current is basically controlled by the wire gauge , here lies the next "problem" , since its coil area and number of turns you are stuck with either high voltage and low amps( thin gauge wire = many turns ) or high amps and low voltage ( thick gauge wire = fewer turns )

Since magnetic field strength ( flux density ) falls off quite quickly from the surface of the magnet , you cannot wind "deep" coils in an attempt to compensate.

So magnets need to have a large surface area for best results / ease of construction

I have also posted the formula for calculating the expected voltage output from a generator coil elsewhere.

ron
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  21:26:49  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I know there is a lot that goes into figuring out a wind system, but those of you who have built your wind gen's, what gauge of wire would you guys think about using if you were to use these magnets??
You must be logged in to see this link.

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  21:55:02  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@screamin

I'm going to venture to guess, that with those, you'd "take out" or eliminate every other magnet, in the ring, so what does that leave you, 9 magnets? The problem with those magnets as i see, for their width, they form too small of a circle. Of course they can be spaced outward to form a larger circle... but they will not be uniform, that way. As each magnet spins over a coil different amounts of magnetic flux with be created on the outer radius width, than the inner.how much effect that would have, and if it'd be detrimental, I'm not sure. I'd go with straight bar though, unless you could find a set of those that matched the diameter you wanted on your rotor. like ron_o stated, it's tough to compensate with coils, the whole system must match.

Did you download the Hug Piggott Book, and have a look? It's well worth reading.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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n/a
deleted



2079 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  22:15:14  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
those magnets area actually the most productive type you can use,at least that is what i have been informed, just expensive. if you go to windgenkits.com they have a tutorial section on there page, it goes over the suggested wire sizes you can use. most of the time its #18 or 2 strands of #18 = 15. alot of pro's and con's about that type of magnet. so will tell ya a good 1 inch x 2 inch x 3/4 thick is the way to go, both will work great. by far the straight bar magnets are what most of the guys i know are using and with great success. what ever type you decide on make a copy of the magnet out of wood, just slightly larger. also make two larger patterns for the outside and run you a bolt in there to make a coil winder. trying to do it by hand just is not the same. MSM used those magnets for his set up and likes them alot. i have made them with round and rectangular, just never spent the money for those killer magnets in your link.
depending on how much power you want to make will help you decide the type of wire, and number of wraps, get your rotors done, then make a test coil and use some plexiglass to hold it between the rotors as you spin the rotors, give you a idea of output. if you have never built a rotor set up before you might want to build a smaller one to learn with at first.IMG]You must be logged in to see this link.[/IMG]
Skype user name: SD3Txxx

Edited by - n/a on November 23 2012 22:21:09
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  22:19:56  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Only if you wind the corresponding coils though SD. Look at the diameter, it's only 8", look at Hugh's plans even the 12V is bigger (120mm rotor radius).

or maybe I'm looking at it wrong, maybe as you space them outward, creating the distance you want (between magnets) they would stay uniform. Kind of an eye puzzle.

I'd go
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 23 2012 22:28:57
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n/a
deleted



2079 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  22:27:47  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thats a excellent choice there Kcarring, that is what i see most of the guys using for the most, only a few of the guys that i know are using the wedge magnets but there set ups are for charging 48 volt set ups. you can not argue with hugh's success either lol. doug was thinking along the same line you did KC,making a coil similar to what goes on a window motor since they seem to have more output then normal coils, well, it all comes down to testing, thats the fun part.


Skype user name: SD3Txxx
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  22:31:04  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hugh's book is full of important points. ive read it three times, you need to read it about ten. like seriously.

little things like:

The diode drop (-0.7 V), at 12V, is a lot more significant than at 24, or 48.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 23 2012 :  22:44:32  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd definitely like to hear doug's views he has more wind experience than I. All I know is this: I installed an Airmov 400, and it was pretty disappointing, enough so, I won't sell anymore. Then I assisted my friend in make one of hugh's 4200 series. It kicks butt. Alas, I could not become a vendor of "hugh's design" - no one sells them (that I am aware of) so I looked to Misouri Wind, and a few other companies. I took a stab and went with Presto Wind. I like Tim, and they make a good product for the price. His double decker is a neat unit. For the money, you get value, and performance, he knows the Delco-mod game well. That said, I want to learn to build Hugh's stuff. On the fringe end of things, I consider myself one of the few (I know no one else except Lidmotor) that put a few hours study into MrDelanco's tech/logic. You have to correspond with the man to get to the nitty gritty of what he is doing with his VAWT. Either he is really on to something, or he is sorrily fooled. He claims his vawt puts out 20-40A. I know of no one else who is mixing direct and alternating current into a single stator, that is downright bizarre. I have a fairly lengthy amount of correspondance (between him and I) if anyone is interested. It is common knowledge that VAWTS are not the way to go, but, consider this: sometimes VAWTS are your ONLY option (bylaws) - and when that is the case, it is irrelevant to make argument for HAWTS. Mr. Delanco's vawt is made almost entirely from recycled garbage.

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note his comment below the video:
quote:
Each coil set goes into a sub system not shown that applies enhancements of today's technology.


Mr. Delanco does not talk about exactly what is going on, in the video, nor on any forums, but the gist of our private discussions, goes like this:

quote:
Kyle
The 1st coil output is connected to the field of the generator and the armature of the generator is connected to the start of the 2nd coil. Both the alternator and the generator energize each other when they start to turn. This installs a charge into the alternator "as a
primer charge ignites the gun powder in a bullet" The charge is a small one about 10 volts at the start of the 2nd coil. then the 2nd coil acts as a voltage multiplier and energizes the 3rd coil at 20 volts with 450 watts, each coil is an increase of 150 watts x 16 coils. this is a no load measure before the rectifiers, there are 4 full bridge rectifier arrays. If you use 1 diode you lose 1/2 a volt if you use 2,3,or 4 diodes you still only lose 1/2 a volt. The more you use the less strain on each diode and the higher you can push the amps.
Now the generator output is rectified to DC before it enters the alternator that is already generating an output of its own in AC. So there is a mix of ac-dc entering the alternator this prevents the feed back effect in the alternator as each coil charges to the next coil, this AC current sucks in the DC like a siphon effect and the voltage is increased by the stepping charge from the alternator duty cycle. This can be seen on the scope as a straight line with clipping above and below. If you were to take a test reading between each coil you will see the straight dc voltage line rise from coil to coil but with each rise you will also see the clipping increase also. Now after rectification I pulse the charge into the batteries from the charge controllers. Now from the batteries to the inverters I enter a boost cap bank each cap is 2500f at 2.5 volts at 8000 joules, there are 6 banks with 6caps in each bank. This gives the inverters a stable current input to handle multiple start-up loads.

You should be able to understand how this works now.


So, the VAWT itself drives the transmission. At a consistent low speed (blades in the wind). The PMG turns faster by way of gears, and on that same driveline is an old Ford Generator from a pickup. As well, the inner blades on the turbine itself are constructed such that in ridiculously high wind, they counteract, and actually brake the unit. Pretty damn interesting when you get into the theory behind it! I don't prescribe to his theory so much on parallel diodes... but that is rather insignificant, people do... I don't, I kinda thing that because diodes are always slightly different the current will take the path of least resistance and blow out one diode, if under-rated. But whatever, that's neither here nor there, really.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 23 2012 23:17:54
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - November 24 2012 :  08:19:19  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all the input guys and I will get Hugh's book. Towards the end of summer I started building a prototype of a VAWT I designed hoping to eliminate two of the problems associated with the VAWT: frequent bearing replacement and opposing wind on the return side. My VAWT won't have any bearings to replace as it will be suspended and held in place on the x, Y,and z axis with a magnetic field which will also reduce friction. I'm still working on a breaking system and the wind reduction on the return side won't get tested until the turbine is done. All it takes is money right?!

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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screaminvern
Junior Member



USA
121 Posts

Posted - December 17 2012 :  08:35:42  Show Profile Send screaminvern a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I tried to go to windgenkits.com, this page popped up: "Warning - visiting this web site may harm your computer!"
Anyone else see this?

{History does "not" repeat it's self, idiots repeat history.}
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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - December 17 2012 :  10:50:42  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi vern

My try went straight in BUT that was it couldn't go any farther.Said couldn't connect to the server. Problem on there side.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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SKYPE bxx49er
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