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 Heating copper pipe with spinning magnets
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49er
Administrator


USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  14:13:07  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

This is an experiment with spinning magnets with copper pipe close to them and it in turn produces heat. For all of you with hot coils of wire this is the same principle of why it gets hot. the tack is not reading right so don't know what speed the wheel is going. I am also powering the motor with a battery with a bad cell but it still will put out some amps and I don't care how bad I abuse it..LOL On start up I have seen 15 amps but it settles out at 1.5 amps no drag and while heating the pipe got up to 6.5 amps. This will be a good way to discharge batteries that need a C20 rate that you can dial in. IMHO we can do better..LOL

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THIS IS THE JOKE OF THE DAY..LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  18:06:21  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure where you were going with this 49er, but have you thought about closing the "Loop" on that copper pipe ? connect it#65279;'s ends together, form a loop and you will get lots of heat from it ...


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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  18:46:31  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think you need to adjust the pipe angle...
Just turn it like 90 degree and it should get you better results...;-)

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  20:21:10  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kultus & TJ

Where I am going is NUTS..LOL SD needs free heat and this is what I saw in a video and TM tryed it and it did work. So it is time to experiment a little with it and see where it leads us. You will like video 2 better it is uploading know.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  20:52:18  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would be trying a shape like this Doug ... It allows you to flow something through while allow you to keep a loop ....



_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Edited by - Kultus on August 14 2012 20:52:58
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n/a
deleted



2079 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  20:58:47  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
i am waitting for video #2 i got extra pop-corn!
this is something me and doug have been talking about for a while. easy way to discharge batterys and get free heat!


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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  21:01:48  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

This is video 2 it was much better than the first. There is much more pontential with this style of copper. With the flat stock coppewr the heat was a lot easer to work with and les amps, I think I need to charge my battery for better results..
LOL Dummy

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  21:14:47  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
that was pretty cool. we need some temp test on the metal strip. i wonder if aluminum will produce more or less heat? possibly make some thin strips in the front, 4 or 5 of them and see if the heat is even with each strip. but, it should make a decent heater. i am already looking for a motor lol.


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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  21:31:44  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er,

I think you need bigger magnet to with larger and stronger magnetic field...^^
Btw, i think you need to close loop that copper piece like Kult stated...
Its the same when you short a coil and keep banging it with magnetic field...
It will get hot very fast till it burns out...
Just keep at it and you`ll get it done...;-)

Btw, i really think you need to turn that piece of copper 90 degree to get better results...;-)

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  21:39:12  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TJ

Tomorrow we start with 8" wide sheet of alum .009" thick so that I think will be as hot but lower amp draw. I will also charge the battery so that should help..

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  16:36:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

Well as I left you yesterday I was going to use a sheet of alum in place of the copper and I did install it. Short version it didn't heat so I didn't make a video.. Today I did do what Kultus and TJ said and made a full circle with a strap and not a pipe. The results were not as good as I hoped, the amps went up but didn't get as much heat. I put the cooler over the wheel but didn't raise the temp as well and the motor got hotter. More experiments will be needed, have a look and see what you think.

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  17:58:37  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er,

Nice full circle test and close as it can get...
You just need some more wood to stiffen it up...lol
Another step in the right direction...keep at it...
Yeh, the closer the copper the more the Eddy`s come to play with you mate...^^
You just need to find a good balance and you`re good to go...

Btw, i still think you need to put that circle otherwise...
Heres a quick crappy pic for you...
I think you have to cut the lines of the copper to get the best results..."i think"...lol


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Edited by - TimberJack on August 15 2012 18:09:26
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 16 2012 :  13:36:40  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

Trying a smaller piece of copper and It works very well. It is a good test to com pair to the first test. what it shows is you can use the same amps with less copper and same magnets. I will have to get a new tack ordered thats the only piece of the puzzle I need to have for a evaluation.



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ENJOY

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - August 16 2012 :  13:50:44  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
nice job there doug. impressive output for such a small piece of copper


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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  10:05:22  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

This installment I have learned a lot about which way to go with the next step. Tell me which way you think I will go??

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ENJOY

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  10:18:41  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
that slight movement of the copper with the screw driver is something else that it would increase the amp draw that much, i bet the heat increases as you move it in also.


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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  12:56:17  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

I found these videos on magnet heat enjoy

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  14:20:46  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

Today's update is we have broken 200 F and its all good.


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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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n/a
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2079 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  14:47:38  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
very good results there doug, we just need to know what RPM's its running at. i know the 14 inch dia wheel on my pulse motor, the 15T with gennerator assist got about 1040 rpm. it should drive a set up like that because it has some torque. we just have to work out the ratio of amp/drag between the wheel running the set up and magnet size needed to produce heat off the strip.


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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  17:10:24  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good going there...^^
As always, the more your experiment the better you`ll get at it...
Time for a Peltier element test...;-)


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Edited by - TimberJack on August 18 2012 17:10:42
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  20:59:31  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er,
Are y'all planning to integrate a fan fin's into the rotor , to help distribute the heat around the room ?
Or would that increase your amp draw too much ?
In thinking about it though, I wouldn't think it would increase the amp draw near as much as running a separate fan to distribute the heat .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  08:28:45  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

I haven't looked that far but I do have a old fan pulley combo that I got from me dad 30 yrs ago. I have run it on my bike wheel on a bi filer coil and it did run, but it cut the rpms down about 30%. It does weigh about 3# and that is a lot for that little motor. yes it can be part of the system but I am getting a lot of air movement just from the magnet wheel but don't know yet about heat to all corners of the basement.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  09:46:53  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Tj

The peltier effect I have never heard of, but I have read up on it now and understand it better. That doesn't mean I know how to measure it. LOL At least I know what it is now and THANKS for that.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  13:21:30  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er,
This is just a thought and it may not work but, it might be worth investigating ...
The element off of an electric stove top , they are wrapped in a coil form to start and the end's where they plug in the slot on the stove can be shorted together .... If they would work they conduct heat and glow red with several hundred degrees ... IDK if it would work but, if you have access to an old electric stove it might be at least worth checking ...

ON the fan fin's , if the rotor itself had fan fin's , it should take less to run it than all the losses you'd get from a separate belt and pulley setup .
I'm just kinda thinking out loud so, if these thought's aren't useful , just disregard em . LOL



=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

===================================================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ... It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  16:35:58  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er,

Peltier element gives you the posibility to convert that heat into some usable power...
Or as in your case, just put that DC current into a "Peltier element" and you`ll have heat on one side and cold on the other side...
But put heat on one side and cold on the other side of the "Peltier element" and you`ll have DC current...;-)
Its a very vesratile element...

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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - September 01 2012 :  10:33:47  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

Just an update, I received the my new rpm meter today and put it to its first test. What I got was a speed of 4700 rpms and it has 6 n/s magnets at 6.5 amps that made 235F. The wheel would draw 4+ amps fee spin at about 5100 rpms and line voltage of 12.44. Now we can test with a little better idea of what is going on and get more heat with less amps.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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totoalas
Junior Member



Macao
168 Posts

Posted - September 01 2012 :  11:38:49  Show Profile Send totoalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
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Hi
Please try to add ceramic magnet at the base of the dc motor and you can see the difference in volatge / current input
In J Bedini motor where the coils are rotating it produces cold air as in magnetic cooling but when the motor stop the coils are very hot

totoalas
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pcmagnut
Average Member



USA
265 Posts

Posted - September 01 2012 :  12:28:49  Show Profile Send pcmagnut a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi49er
Looking good keep up the good work!
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - September 01 2012 :  14:42:05  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi totoalas

Won't the extra magnets make more drag??
making more amps??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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totoalas
Junior Member



Macao
168 Posts

Posted - September 01 2012 :  18:37:48  Show Profile Send totoalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er
You maybe right coz when open ckt voltage its 18 vdc from the wall adapter but when connected drops to 8 v dc .. my observation is the current draw is small as compared without magnet on the base how about putting the load disc parallel with the motor bearing motor meaning the motor is standing vertical to the table and the disc parallel to the table / motor bearing to reduce drag as in my set up all the ceramic magnets are flat in the base thanks totoalas
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - September 02 2012 :  10:59:58  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi toto

The ball brgs in the motor are made to support the shaft horizontal so on its end will cause more drag. IMHO The tests are just to prove the concept and also find the best configuration to make heat with the same motor. This motor will be changed in the second set of tests.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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pcmagnut
Average Member



USA
265 Posts

Posted - September 12 2012 :  12:54:37  Show Profile Send pcmagnut a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er
Hows it going with the copper strip heating? Just curious
Thanks
Pat
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - September 15 2012 :  21:41:34  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi PC

Next week I will have time to do more with the copper strip. My wife took the camera on holiday with her and can't post any video until she gets back on the 25th so will only post what happens when it gets the next test run. Thanks for asking

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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alexbarb
New Member



1 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  01:20:08  Show Profile Send alexbarb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If its really work then i think it would be really a new invention. I would also like to try this. But i hope it would definitely work.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  10:24:49  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi alexbarb

It really works and it is easy to try it please do. As of now I am working with my pulse motor to make enough heat to make it more economical on the amount of amps that the motor uses and using the PM is a way of recovering some of the energy that the brush motor used to make the same heat.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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Darrell
Junior Member



USA
108 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  01:33:07  Show Profile Send Darrell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug, do you think if the magnets were mounted to a metal rotor that it would put out more heat on the copper strips? Just curious. Thanks "D"
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  19:17:00  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi D

Don't know yet but next is magnets on both sides. Will go from there, have to reglue the center board on my PM so end of testing today..LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 28 2012 :  19:41:20  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Doug,

When a guy builds a stator coil, the higher the number the turns, the greater the voltage @ a given RPM. Oppositely, the low number of turns, heavier gauge wire, the more current and less volts.

Question:

Do you see this as a shorted single turn stator, heating up?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - November 29 2012 :  17:49:09  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KC

I don't know if I can have one lead in and work which is what was working before and now I have tryed it with a beginning and end but it did not work. To many variables at this time and my PM needed repair so give me another week and maybe I will know this question.. LOL probably NOT LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - December 10 2012 :  21:23:26  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er ,
Have you thought about using induction for heat ?
Here is a tutorial I was looking at and thought for you and SD it should work great with solar after it's converted to AC ... The tutorial is to melt metal, so it should take a whole lot less power just to heat it only ... IDK , I just found it and figured I'd show it to y'all in case y'all wanted to look it over .

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==================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...

==================================================================

"Throughout space there is energy ...
It it a mere question of time when man will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of Nature" Nicola Tesla
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - December 10 2012 :  22:59:47  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K
I will look into this it looks good on a glance. Tks a bunch

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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The_Architect
Average Member



USA
327 Posts

Posted - February 14 2013 :  23:56:58  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
something I did not see in you set up was to put a steel plate behind the magnets
(like this): plastic wheel|Steel|Magnet|air|Copper sheet

the reason for that would be to deflect the magnetic field out the side of the copper, doubling the strength of the magnet,

However I think the real trick is to get more of those magnets on that wheel, and make sure to alternate them, no loop is needed, what you are doing is forcing the atoms in the copper to flip flop, and it works well for copper because it does not want to stay that way once the magnet is taken away, so they flip the other way so easily. Kinda like microwaving a *Glass of water. so the higher speed you can flip the atoms the better the effect. more magnets on your rotor the more flips per rotation. The steel plat for the magnets you have there I would say would have to be about 16gage to just about cut all the magnetic field from penetrating. if you can cup it by making either a lamination with two pieces one with a hole in it the shape of the magnet, the other flat and extending a bit out around the magnet to match the one with the hole, you should get double pull on that magnet no problem.

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*edited it from saying Class to Glass, man I was tired when I typed that up earlier ha ha.

Edited by - The_Architect on February 14 2013 23:58:52
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49er
Administrator



USA
4424 Posts

Posted - February 15 2013 :  08:26:09  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TA

Thanks for the info I will work on that when I get back to this experiment

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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The_Architect
Average Member



USA
327 Posts

Posted - February 25 2013 :  21:22:49  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
as per your request I am adding this info :) the idea is to use the push pull of magnets on metal alloys that both heat up when a magnet is brought near them and cool off when you retract the magnet. Praseodymium-nickel alloy seems to keep coming up in my searches, My idea is to put a plate of this on a sheet of aluminum so that the aluminum is going to absorb the heat while the metal is heated and thus the metal will get colder than it originally was when the magnet is spun away from the area, put a little fan blade to increase the heat dissapation, and sandwich a set of peltiers between the aluminum somewhere in the path of the heat, and you should get a both very cold surface at the alloy/air face, and electricity as the heat passes through the peltiers on its way to the deepest heat well where the fan is pulling constantly this heat away with air flow. The idea is to turn a section of the metal air junction into a sort of valve to keep the heat for the most part flowing one direction. I have a rendering I have been working on, that I will post soon. Right now it will also have to be on the back burner as I have 3 other projects I need to complete before moving on from their testing :)

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The_Architect
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USA
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Posted - February 26 2013 :  17:41:17  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
here is a quick mock up of what I intend, when I get to it, but no explanation will be available on here, publicly, for the same reason that Tinman has for what he is doing over on the rotary transformer thread :)

link for the video,


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IrishDave
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Ireland
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Posted - February 26 2013 :  21:03:46  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No explanation for a rotor with 4 magnets???
What am I missing?
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The_Architect
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USA
327 Posts

Posted - February 26 2013 :  22:50:20  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave, go read up on magnetocaloric effects and magnetic refrigeration :)

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49er
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USA
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Posted - March 14 2013 :  09:00:39  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

You are right that is as clear as mud

Doug
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The_Architect
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USA
327 Posts

Posted - March 16 2013 :  05:07:19  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
read up on magnetocaloric induction, then you will know what is going on, the green plate is a sheet of Praseodymium, and the transparent grey is a series of aluminum heat sinks, so the heat will be absorbed by it at a higher rate than most of the stuff *say common atmosphere* making contact with the top side of the green disc or ring. This will cause heat to be pumped through to the 4 square units and should create electricity as it passes through them if they are bismuth-tellurium Peltiers, though they are not needed, the idea was to make the reverse of the heating something with magnets and copper tubing sort of, though with this, the heat is pumped into the green plate as the magnets fields press into the plate, and as it recedes that area is forced to return the same amount of temp, down, so if any is removed while it is heated, it gets colder than it was originally. hope that clears the water some what. (you can search for praseodymium too on wiki and get a ton of useful info on that and other metals that respond like this. unlike copper that just heats up, when being submerged in and out of a magnetic field.

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ron_o
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United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - March 17 2013 :  17:42:23  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like it !

It's bound to have a few problems initially but it's a "sound" enough concept that i'm sure will work.

ron
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