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 Transformers, Generators and Electric Motors.
 Start of my Mini Tesla Coil ....
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Kultus
Moderator


Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  05:47:45  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok guys so here is my primary for my TC, it's a bifillar pancake, just like a standard primary people use, but in Tesla's papers you will find many times her returns to notation of his pancake coil, he wound these in both single strand and bifillar, I of course have gone the Bifillar.. lol ... Enjoy



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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  09:31:57  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thats looking very good, nice and easy way to make the primary...^^
Cant wait to see that puppy going...;-)
I still have my secondary laying around collecting dust...lol...another project not finished...lol


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Edited by - TimberJack on August 13 2012 09:32:47
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  09:46:25  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Secondary already made ....that's the hard part over, time to make up your primary, cap bank and spark gap ...

_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  13:20:57  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kultus

I like this set up I can even under stand it..LOL good job and I will be watching thanks

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  14:31:06  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KT,

Yeh, i really need to finished that one...
I`ll see what i can do with it in the upcoming days...;-)
The spark gap part...is any iron rod oke to use???

quote:
Originally posted by Kultus

Secondary already made ....that's the hard part over, time to make up your primary, cap bank and spark gap ...

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  00:03:52  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TJ, Yea Iron rod would be fine, My first spark gap was stainless steel screws (this way I could adjust easy), the only reason people say to use tungsten is so that it doesn't melt away over time,, with softer metals you end up with pot holes in the ends, but it's only important if you have rounded ends... to keep them round.

I will be starting the spark gap next, in the mean time I'll be just using a slayer circuit to drive it for testing resonance of the coils, I made a boo boo in calculation so I'll be pulling all the wire back off the primary today and rewinding it...But keep your eyes open for when I start the spark gap, it's not going to be like others you have seen :D

Hey Doug good to hear from you :) I like the K.I.S.S. method, "Keep it simple *Not So Smart*" this way seemed easiest to get calculations for the turns right, but next time I think I will make it up on 1 single piece of wood then cut strips off, going to be a heck of a lot easier then doing individual ones like I did this time.


_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  12:41:22  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kult,

Thanks for that, will go and make some SG rounded points with threaded iron rods so its easy to adjust...^^
Yeh...will be keeping an eye on this post here to see that SG of yours...;-)

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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  22:56:03  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Kultus
I have a few questions?
So brass screws with rounded cap nuts wouldnt be good?? I chose cap nuts because they can be changed easy.
Calculate primary turns?? How can you do that?

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  00:18:07  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK firstly With the spark gap, as I said to TJ, the only reason you use harder metals is to give them longevity, make the last longer, if you are happy to change them over from time to time for the "PERFECT" spark that's fine, but only if you are trying to calculate values from your spark do you need to really worry about this.

Now onto Calculating Primary vs. secondary... ready ? lol

Firstly I am going to point out that Tesla Claim you want a 1:1 ratio of Mass so you want to get the closest weight to gauge ratio you can to match the turns per weight of your Coils..

now comes the hard part Calculations etc, rather then cut n paste half a web site I will direct you to the one I found most helpful, but be warned there is a lot of math involved and it IS necessary in order to make a reliable Tesla coil .. if you try to skip over this part you better have lots of cash for spare parts :D

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it's going to be a read and a learning curb, but I hope it helps... (some where between 6 and 10 turns if it's a 10kva or above, but even a 1/16 turn out can have massive performance effects best to get it right)

B safe and have Fun Msmjr,

_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  18:23:45  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kult,

"Tesla Claim you want a 1:1 ratio of Mass so you want to get the closest weight to gauge ratio you can to match the turns per weight of your Coils"...
So basicaly if your secondary weight 100 grams your primary should weight the same...???
But at what wire size should it weight the same as the secondary...???
Example, my secondary wire size is 0.25mm at 100grams so my primary should be (wire size) at 100 grams...
Is the above written correct...???

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Edited by - TimberJack on August 15 2012 18:25:23
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  20:00:23  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Example, my secondary wire size is 0.25mm at 100grams so my primary should be (wire size) at 100 grams..."

You got the idea there Tj,

if you come up with any matches let us all know, it's not something I've started doing the math on just yet as you need to also match inductance to roughly 1:4 ratio to the sec (primary should be about 1/4 of the Henry's of the Sec.) but to be honest and going back to Tesla's word, He has the analogy of a Cup filled with water, you want to be able to transfer from 1 cup to the other without over or under filling it ...



_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  20:46:27  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oke thanks mate,

Thats enough for me now to keep me going on the Tesla Coil setup...primary time...;-)
No math for me mate, its complicated enough as it is...lol
If you encounter any matches i`ll let you know and also on how it works or if it works at all...lol

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  21:14:41  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't suggest "slapping" together a Tesla coil, work out your resonances, inductances or things are going to either not work or fry ...

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 15 2012 :  22:26:45  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL,
""slapping" together a Tesla coil"...well, that was my intention mate...lol
I aint gonna use a transistor/mosfet circuit...:)
Just plain mechanical switching thru the ignition coil or some other transformer...fill cap(s)...Spark gap Arc into primary of Tesla coil setup...and hope for the best...lol

Btw, hows your primary coming along...you did rewire it didnt you...and hows that "first time seen" SG coming along...???

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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - August 16 2012 :  21:30:45  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Kultus
Yes I like this site better than the last ones I tried to understand. Its not the math so much I have a problem with its knowing which value are which. Mass = mass makes a lot of sense after having to double the primary winds on my large Slayer to keep from frying transtors. LOL

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 16 2012 :  22:14:13  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TJ: I am getting Tools sorted to do a good job, and have to wait on bearings and stuff I have ordered, but the Spark gap is coming along, I will do a short vid with a little explanation today or tomorrow, just bought my Drill press, so i can cut the disc from acrylic, I'm going ot build a small prototype first then once I can find the over sized hole saw I need I'll then cut out the bigger disc and build my full sized version. same thing is going on for the Sec, I have bought some new wood and gotta wait for the father inlaw to come home and teach me all about the drop saw (sounds lame, but I've not worked with em much and I want to use it to cut the groves in and then cut strips from the wood, never done it before, want to get it right) I needed more turns then I thought I did, so I have to rebuild the base and the riggers, but it's also coming along... now back to you .. when I said frying thing in you TC I wasn't referring to transistors, I knew you were not using them, thats what the spark gap replaces lol ... you caps / diodes can get smashed by a TC very easily if your over filling your cup the spillage must go somewhere....

MSM: I'm glad the site was helpful, It has gotten me tons of good ideas, the Java program if you can understand it will help a lot too, if you want to really get deep into this, invest in a inductance meter too...


_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 16 2012 :  23:18:13  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kult,
Thanks for the update on your progress...
Hey we all have to learn new stuff on tools every now and than...
As long we keep improving on our teachings/skills we are on the good path...we must never be afraid to fail...thats when the progress will stop and we stop evolving...;-)

About my setup...
Only thing i need to take in considiration is the caps like your said...sooo
How can i know what value caps i need voltage wise...
I am gonna pulse the ignition coil from 5vdc at first...at 12vdc input that should get me around 10 to 12kv arc...
So at 5vdc that would be hmmm...around 4k to 5kv...so i should put atleast 4 of those 1.6kv caps in series as a start...
Sound good or not...lol...
About the overfilling part...doesnt that go thru the SG into the primary...isnt that the whole idea...???


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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 16 2012 :  23:40:02  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
my explanation is limited but I will do my best....

once you get high to such high voltages as your TC is going to produce, things will blow from the slightest miss tap, this includes your caps / diode, any resistors it has in place to protect the HV coils (NST / ingy coil etc) when you have not got all inductances balanced you can over shoot the sec into the primary... primary to your components... from what I have read that's when coupling distance is too short as well, even my slayer as good as it is atm, the Pri and secs are too close and I get arcing over, if I wasn't using a earth on my battery, it would be much larger, burn through all insulation I have in place arc over and blow the transistor, Remember you only have 1 side of your Pri on the spark gap the other side is connected to the components all the time, this is where is gets nasty, High freq / High voltage like I said doesn't care for dielectric strengths, it will shoot straight through you Caps and burn them up. Your NST or other power supply WILL be a point of lower potential and thus a direction your energy will want to travel if given a path ( a path includes an arc over)

I hope I got it all in there, sorry if you have to decipher me...

_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  00:03:39  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kult,

If your explanation is limited...what makes that mine than...absolutely zero...lol
Thanks for the input mate...^^...
Every bit helps and i think that when i`m about to do some test i`ll crank it by hand and hopefully see a problem if theres any...
Btw, whats the best way to see if the secondary is being activated...just a small coil and a led in close range of the secondary...???

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  00:06:17  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Neon Bulb should do the trick, the high frequency will excite the Neon gas and light up for you

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  00:14:33  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okee, thanks for that mate...
Got plenty of those laying around collecting dust...


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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  00:16:48  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thought you might, Fluro tubes work well too in the same manner, where the gas is excited by the high frequency

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  08:20:59  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TJ: Now as for how to work out the voltage limit of your caps will require, as you cannot be 100% sure of what your input is going to be, at best you can only guess, I would work out your best guess, add 2 KV just to be safe, then add 2 KV to your caps to give them room too, Your always better to have room in voltage, too much is never too much, it wont effect anything, where as too little and they will fry.... it's the capacitance value you are going to need to worry about for achieving resonance, Too little and they will charge to fast, having no time to dump.... too high and they will never fill up ... you need to find just the right balance between your coils - input voltage /current and your caps...

Video of slayer in the day light will be posted in a few mins... finally uploaded, just processing now :/ lol

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  08:33:57  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
NEW VIDEO :D .. Electrical Flame Thrower in the day light

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_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  09:59:10  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice EG you got there...
Yeh, that circuit looks simple as the one MAG uses...;-)
And still i cant it it to work...lol...anyway...
Simple is good mate and it works perfect...thats all that counts...
Nice fat light bulp or whatever that is...at night it would be awesome to see glowing...
Whats the amp draw of that system...???


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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 17 2012 :  18:21:39  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Approx 900ma which works out to be 32.4 watt I think it was for the running of that 30watt bulb so very close to unity for the bulb, few more tweeks and I might it's the nail on the head

What is EG ?

There is a vid of the Slayer running at night with that bulb going watch this Video from 5:30 on wards You must be logged in to see this link.

easiest way for you to get one of these going, Take the Secondary for your TC wrap 6 turns of some heavy speaker wire around the base of it and wire up as per diagram in the Vid, JUST BE VERY CAREFUL not to earth out your secondary with you finger or table top etc, you'll get burns in your windings/ varnish .... but it will work. 3-9 turns for you primary (6 works best for most, and like I said in my vid I have to kick start it by putting my finger across the 3 pins of the transistor

_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  07:25:57  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK Part 1 of the Rotatory Spark Gap .....

Part 2 to come as soon as youtube allows...



_______________________________________________________
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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  09:08:15  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kultus

Your effort is great and also your project. I like your tattoo also. Do help TJ I don't want him to look like a burnt hot dog and it sounds you guys are playing with a lot of voltage.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 18 2012 :  16:59:29  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kult,

Nice going on your RSG build...and yes bro...we work with what we have...;-)
I also would love to have some other machines aswell but for now we do with what we have...^^
One good thing about not having every available machine is that it does makes you think, improvise and aslo be creative with your builds...;-)

Hi 49er,

I`m a Hot Dog already but i have no entention to be a Burned one...but thanks for the concern...:D
Look much lateron in the PM section, will have there a PM with a ignition coil in the circuit...;-)

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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  03:12:00  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys here is part 2 :D Enjoy!



_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Edited by - Kultus on August 19 2012 03:12:22
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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  20:23:26  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Kult,

Nice going there with your RSG setup...;-)
That setup should get you a higher frequency at lower rpm`s...good move...^^
Cool, man made lighting...



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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 19 2012 :  20:38:17  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks TJ, I give Kudos to Tesla for it's design, I saw it in the background of a picture taken of Telsa in his lab... got to be quick and notice these things :D

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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
Senior Member



824 Posts

Posted - August 20 2012 :  22:07:12  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kult,

You have to watch this one here...from 09.25 it get very interesting with a bifilar coil as a primary...
You can easy replicate this one and it should reduce your input and still give you more than before on the output side...
Got to love those Bifilar coils especially this one with multi wires...^^

When i get my going i`m surely gonna do this because i do have those speaker coils laying around...^^




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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - August 20 2012 :  23:03:38  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Theoldscientist has a great understanding of Tesla's work, you should watch his whole catalog, it is very enlightening and educational. I have just received my 1/4 inch copper tube today and my 4.6-0-4.6KV power supply , waiting on my 150mm stainless steel ball and my Flexiduct to arrive, Oh and my ceramic stand offs, I should do a video and show you guys what happened to my "electrical" conduit when it broke down the other day ... shorted out my last tip 42c transistor too :(

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Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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TimberJack
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824 Posts

Posted - August 21 2012 :  20:44:37  Show Profile Send TimberJack a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeh, he has some good info...^^
I see you`re getting yourself some early X-mas present...nice...;-)
I have some of those NPN TIP142...darlinton pairs...
But got no use for them yet...

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