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 Discharge Limits
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hkalan
Senior Member


Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 28 2012 :  01:56:56  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Gentlemen,

I am trying to save an old 12V 65Ah battery. Is there a limit to the number of times that a battery can be discharged to absolute Zero before damaging the cells ?

I am stuck at 12.33V with it on the SSG. Have a look...



Thanks,

Alan



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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 28 2012 :  02:29:17  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Stuck at 12.33V

Over the last 2 days I have been trying to save this old battery... but now it seems to be stuck at 12.33V

Any words of wisdom ????



Thanks,

Alan



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pcmagnut
Average Member



USA
265 Posts

Posted - May 28 2012 :  11:34:03  Show Profile Send pcmagnut a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan
My experience with the bedini with any mods is that it will take up to a month to desulfate a battery. Thats why I went to a Tesla switch.
I was really surprised at the results I got. Try to use what you have to make a T.S. that will make a big difference for you.
Otherwise just keep charging and discharging,It will take some time.
Pat
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - May 28 2012 :  15:55:22  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

First of all your question of can I hurt my battery by discharging it to less than 1 volt is yes very much so. The battery bible will tell all about a battery in charge and discharge. But for you we will ship all that reading..LOL First don't go below 11.8 volts under a load. 2- SD3T and I have learned a working discharge system that we are using now is .21 volts from a resting voltage under discharge for 6 volt battery and double that for a 12 volt battery, so in your case .42 volts and if that goes below 11.8 volts to bad the books can't always be wright.LOL As far as your pulse motor charging the battery I think I heard you say your motor is putting out only 300 ma?? anyway divide your 300ma into 65 ah and that will give you how long it will take to charge the battery if it was in good condition. Give or take 216 hrs to charge. So what PC told you would be correct, you need a bigger charger. Your little motor will work on a 1.3 ah battery well up to a 7 ah battery but that is about the top limit. A C20 rate to charge would be the least you need to burn the sulfation off the plates ans double that to have better luck. SD3T and I have been testing a lot on what it takes to do well with burning off sulfation in less than 60 D&C's and a bigger that c20 rate is looking very promising. Hope this helps

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 28 2012 :  22:18:00  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for the information !!! I had the gut feeling that discharging down to ZERO was a bad thing for a battery... Even on the boat, with the solar controller we never allow the battery to go below 11.6V on a 12V battery bank.

I need to do more reading and learn more on the Tesla Switch, as I do not fully understand the diagram with the 3 or 4 batteries in the circuit (I always thought it was like a battery swapper circuit). I only need to use a run and a charge battery in a circuit...

Thanks so much !

Alan




Edited by - hkalan on May 29 2012 00:57:15
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 29 2012 :  06:37:52  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey SD,

I did a google search on the "Tesla Switch" but always come up with 3 and 4 battery setup circuits... are you using that many batteries too in your 15T ??? I do not have four 65Ah batteries sitting around for this...

Thanks for the input from all of you !

Alan



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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 29 2012 :  08:08:47  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've just been looking into this Alan. Here are two links that may be useful:

You must be logged in to see this link.

SD3t has some good doco vids on making them here:

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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 29 2012 :  08:09:46  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BTW what happen to your wave energy harvest coils?
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - May 29 2012 :  08:36:01  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While we are on the topic of desulphation, do the batteries that get desupphated get the acid balance(according to a hydrometer) back, or not really. I am asking this because I got some sulpheric acid so when I get old batteries I am not sure if I should add some acid when needed, or see what happens first by trying to desulphate.
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pcmagnut
Average Member



USA
265 Posts

Posted - May 29 2012 :  17:20:30  Show Profile Send pcmagnut a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys
For what it is worth I was using just 2 12 volt batteries 1 for charge and 1 for run
when I first built my 12t but now use a 24 volt power supply I bought from digi key.
This works really well also I have also used a 12 volt power supply out of a computer
which worked very well.
As for the hydrometer or is it hygrometer I'm not sure.This charging is supposed to
bring the acid back out of the lead from what I understand although I've never tested this
so maybe I'm talking out my a$$.
Hope this helps
Pat
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - May 30 2012 :  01:14:25  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

Yes PC you are right on the money the acid does come out of the lead - plates when you charge the battery which also puts the + ions to the + plates and this is when you use a Hydrometer. Never put new acid in a battery for that reason. shak This is why you only use distilled water.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - May 30 2012 :  03:09:36  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys

Thank you so much...

Can I use TIP3055 or TIP31C transistors ??

Alan



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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - May 30 2012 :  07:42:17  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Alan
I used the lrg Tip3055 on my SS without any trouble or heat sinks and I plan on trying them on my TS.
One thing I did find out is that not all tip3055 are equal. No more of that little stuff from Radio Shack
and the last 8 out of 10 lrg ones I got from a USA supplier......poof.... within a couple of days playing with my Slayers.
This may just be in my head but these seem to hold up the best,
You must be logged in to see this link.



Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - May 30 2012 :  11:26:16  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

The tip units will work BUT I have found the 2n3055 are a lot more forgiving IMHO. I have not tried msm type so if they are easer to get try them. Also you will see that there NO neons so save your money LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - July 20 2012 :  22:08:25  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello gentlemen,

The 2 bifilar coils connected to the 3 transistor SSG has been pulsing the once flat and sulfated batter for nearly 2 months. The flat battery has been connected to the SSG that has only been powered by a 50w solar panel and another 65Ah marine battery.

Talking with the girlfriend on the phone today (I am in Beijing on a project).

She told me that the little green indicator on the battery is now glowing on the once flat battery, and the volt reading is holding at 13.8v right now.

Looks like a litte waiting with the SSG powered by the sun has put some life back into a once dead battery !!!

I am excited to get back home and put the battery on the 3 stage charger to see if it will hold it's own once again !!!!

Alan

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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - July 21 2012 :  19:31:50  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Is your SSG a wheel or a SS SSG?? Either way looks like you have a reconditioned battery. Congrats

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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fan1701
Average Member



USA
243 Posts

Posted - July 22 2012 :  22:41:39  Show Profile Send fan1701 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very curious to know as well. Thanks in advance HK.

al

* Not following the manufacturer recommended specs * ON PURPOSE!
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - July 23 2012 :  06:40:13  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

It is the same rotor style with the 3 transistor SSG from the first page. It is a good little "Self-Starter" made with a CD and the bearings from a Sony Notebook. The coils are made with .56mm copper magnet wire for both on one Bifilar, and .45mm/.56mm all with 700+ turns.

Here is a picture. The video on the first page has a bit more detail.



Alan



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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - July 25 2012 :  08:52:27  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan

I went back and looked at what you have done and you have doon very well. This is what you can do to help the battery more. Increase the discharge to 2 bulbs the C20 rate is about 3 amps so 2 something will help. Sense you have the battery up to 13.8 it is well on its way to 100% so I would suggest raising your input to the battery with 500ma if you can just watch your heat. You need to get the battery up to 15.2 volts under charge and let it rest at least 10 hrs, then use the .42 volts discharge and time it with the 2 bulb discharge. Just keep that up until the battery rest above 12.8 and you will be good to go. Hope this helps

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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