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msmjr
Average Member


USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  00:30:24  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys
Had a lot of fun today playing around with this little set up. Its a whole new world to play with (as if I didnt have enough) If I could just find a barn to move into, fire the family and quit my job Id have plenty of time. LOL Sorry its broken up but the camera is new to me and it was winning the fight. Enjoy


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Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus

Edited by - msmjr on March 12 2012 05:35:13

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n/a
deleted



2079 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  01:42:14  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
nice work there buddy! i could only watch the last video, the other ones are password protected. cant wait to see how that coil on the right works, i watched a video on how that one was made. what grade of stainless steal did you get?

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  05:19:19  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yea i think he is keeping the good stuff from us lol


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  05:24:25  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That cell is cranking for 60 watts in-looking good msmjr


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  05:46:24  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry bout that. LOL Not sure why it picks some to view and some not and I was tired.
SD: its all aluminum so far. You said a how to? Sharring please?
I cut a slot in a piece PVC and roled it by hand. Not easy. Would love to know if theres an easyer way.


Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  06:29:48  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
msm-your useing aluminum plates???


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  06:41:47  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup Yup!
It was cheap (free is best) and the output was impressive. Dont think the plate will hold up to long, I think the 4th video shows the damage done. Thats when things got a little crazy. Like I said I was tired. LOL Off to work bah.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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n/a
deleted



2079 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  10:14:26  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey msmjr, check out videos from zerofossil fuel, i will try to find a video and post it, running late to get to work.

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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  10:42:08  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

Those are great videos and we all learned a lot Thank you LOL it was great at breakfast. I liked the part where your temp meter read 300 C + and you touched the side of your dish and I said to my self that is going to hurt,but you didn't jump and I am glad for that but it was funny. TM when you read this comment, I think we need to get a mad scientist award to hand out. This will be the first that is my vote. LOL this is great

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  16:59:52  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol 49er
So now msm stands for mad scientist man lol


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  18:23:43  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All

That sounds good to me TM, Mad Scientist Man May be we can get HK to make a little icon that we can tack on his signature.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  20:07:53  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I must have something set wrong , cause I haven't been able to view any of em yet .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  20:25:28  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see them all no problem mate

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 12 2012 :  23:26:22  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL You Guys are the best
After the 15hr day I just had at work I needed a good laugh. Mad Scientist Man indeed I like that.
49er: I just knew that at those temp Id have a steam bath and it would have melted through to the floor.

A couple of things I learned: Aluminum does work, Baking soda......BAD. Everything was good looking untill I used the baking soda. Now it looks like its been in the weather for 100yrs. I was ready to move on to stainless untill.......I remembered te Alum I used in the 1 battery. I tried it and man lots of bubbles and there much larger. So it looks like Im taking it to the next level. Rebuild with fresh parts and a real test setup.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - March 13 2012 :  00:14:14  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Msm, Look up Electroplating, that is what is going on with your plates and why they look so rusted ... Stainless wont do that too you, but most if not all other metals will even without Bi Carb. given enough time, the bi carb just allows more amps to flow through the water speeding up the process.

HOWEVER! From this effect you can plate your own metals:

Connect positive to the metal you want to transfer
Connect negative to the metal you want to plate

Add some Bi carb or other electrolyte, and apply the power, with in a few mins you will note a change, after 5-10 mins remove the item you have coated and polish it with any old cloth ... I have some awesome looking 5cent pieces from here in Australia, they started out silver .. they are now copper ... lol ...

Just thought I'd add this to your knowledge bank, is one of the interesting by products of working with HHO experiments.

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Edited by - Kultus on March 13 2012 01:39:32
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - March 13 2012 :  00:18:26  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK , I re-downloaded javascript and swapped browsers to all three I have , logged into photobucket and went through there help / I just can't view these video's for whatever reason that hasn't been explained by all I was directed to do .. I'll keep workin on it .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - March 13 2012 :  01:33:30  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also Msn, looking at your 3rd video, you were unsure as to if your DMM was reading correctly, I have a DMM with what seems to be the same temp probe on it ... If I connect it backwards it gives me ridiculous temp that cannot be true, however when connected the correct way around will give me much lower - believable readings ... Don't know if this is what is happening to yours, but worth a look (mine came marked wrong in the box ... so I have to make sure I connect it up backwards )

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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You must be logged in to see this link.

Skype: kultusnagrand
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 14 2012 :  08:26:07  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Kultus
I thought you needed the correct bath for plating for instance nickel/nickel sulfate. I found that when I was looking into the Edison Battery. I couldnt find a reasonable suplier so I stopped trying. But if it will work with any electrolite Ill give it a go.
About the temp probe, its polarized, 1 blade is larger. I think it was laying against the plates under all that sediment, I just couldnt see it. As soon as I took it out it came back to normal.
Almost ready for another run just need to finish the bubbler, will let you all know how it goes.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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Kultus
Moderator



Australia
614 Posts

Posted - March 14 2012 :  12:15:18  Show Profile  Visit Kultus's Homepage Send Kultus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Make sure you build the Bubbler with a WEAK spot, Like on my settup, The cap slides on - NO thread - this way if there is a blow back it will simply blow the lid off and not my bubbler to pieces, lst thing you want is plastic shrapnel flying around your work shop.

Electroplating : I have only ever used the Bicarb when doing electroplating, but I would think it would work with any electrolyte, if you try other stuffs, let me know your results :)

_______________________________________________________
If you don't Believe me, go back to your desk at B.P.

Never give up, it only takes one crazy Idea to go right, and your not so crazy any more - Kultus 2011

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Skype: kultusnagrand
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  01:08:08  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey msm ,
I finally updated enough to watch em ,, interesting videos ... It look's like the resistance got a little high on the positive side , I don't know if all that was hydrogen or if you were boiling the water also .

=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  14:47:21  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Kudzu
The highest I gotten it was 62c or about 154f. Im not sure what the boiling point with soda but I dont think Im quite there.
I saw on 49ers thread what you said about the plates, thats the way mine are set up and I did try my SS with it. It dose work but very limited results. My best results (at least that were manageble)LOL were over 5amps and 13v's. With the SS only 2.36v didnt bother with ma's.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  14:56:04  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys
Questions; Does using neutral plates reduse amp draw? Cause the new brick I made with 6x6 plates draws more than my meters will measure.
Also is there a rule of thumb for volume of water/electrolite in the main tank?

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  21:23:32  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

The plates I think will reduce the amp draw a little. Like you seen in my video you do a little bit at a time until you get what you want, What I have seen in video is 35 amps at around 2 liters.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  22:01:01  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kultus
Make sure you build the Bubbler with a WEAK spot,



I tried this but I found they leak hydrogen lowering your output. An alternative method is to have thread cap with a plastic bag membrane that is sure to go first, then you don't have a leak all the time :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  22:04:08  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can use this to figure out your plate / draw / mmw against Faradays law:

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  22:19:04  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In as far as production is concerned Faradays law governs normal conditions, so for example:

(voltage x amps x seconds for LPM) / 3600 = watt hours
2.4 watt hours and under represents over unity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - March 16 2012 :  22:41:01  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In general, the best brute force units do not use neutral plates. Typically though, many do, including mine. For brute force, all wet cell "dunk tanks" are not ideal at all. Huge current losses. To actually get a gain in your vehicle, you do indeed need a very efficient unit. Mine runs at between 4.88 and 5.4 MMW - and this is a little low. 5.5+ is what you really want. Otherwise, you are consuming so many amps that it is counterproductive, HP wise. It's all a trade off, you want to use electrical power to compensate for the motor's horrible job of completely combusting the available fuel, but if you make the engine work too hard doing that... you lose what you'd hoped to gain. MY results on the dynamo showed 10-15% increase, and honestly, I thought I had better. "Real world" tests (i.e you gas up, check your mileage) don't count because if you do ten tests, you find it quite easy to fluctuate 10-12% anyway, driving is not a controlled experiment. If you get a cell that does 6+ MMW you might realize 18-22% or so in gas job, and possibly 25-30% in a diesel. But that also is dependant on a lot of things / variable. Map sensors are real pain in the ass, because in most gas cars as you lean down, your engine computer just dumps more gasoline in... hard to win unless you "fool" the sensor. Diesels also have sensors (newer ones) but mine is old and really does not have any complicated computerization or electronics. A true top dead centre combustion motor (Rudolph Diesel design) would be the best, and simplest.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on March 16 2012 22:41:57
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 18 2012 :  11:18:19  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Kcarring
Thanks for all the information.
Ive been trying to digest all this info and the 1 thing I found interesting with the calculator is that no matter how you modify the cell it doesnt change the LPM unless you change your volume and it only gives me 0.04LPM. Well Im getting 2/3 bubbles per sec from a 3/8" tube, unfortunately I didnt get to measure it before a total melt down of my holding tank. LOL Id taken it to work and my employees got board with bubbles so we made, what I dubbed, a HHO candle. With major leaks we got a 1" flame to stand on top of a 3/16 brake line that was cut and crimped. Fun at work with MSM. hahaha
When the thin plastic tank hit 160f everything came to halt. LOL

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus

Edited by - msmjr on March 18 2012 11:24:12
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 18 2012 :  11:29:06  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

You are really a mad scientist that is way toooooo much heat GOOD JOB next time you experiment take a video LOL I like it. I got nervous at 122 F but 160 Holly Cow

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 18 2012 :  12:15:23  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL 49er
Yea me to but I wasnt paying attention to that I was worried about the flame. I did get to measure amps in before the mishap. 13.3v at 25amps. To much for this little set up. The brick is 12 3"x6" plates so (3"x6")12x2=432" total surface area spaced 3mm apart.
First thing is to measure the LPM after I find (or build) a new tank. Then Im going to rearrange the plates to give me some neutrals to try and cut down the amp draw.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 18 2012 :  14:01:07  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

I have had my setup down in spacing to .060" and my heat was lower but wasn't putting any amps like you I am still testing and learning.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 18 2012 :  14:57:56  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er
I have a tendensy to change to much to fast, just like with the Bedini's, I have to slow down and take a breath. patience...Luke...patience

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - March 18 2012 :  15:12:43  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

Yup Yup

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 21 2012 :  00:30:58  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok Guys
I really need to behave myself. LOL.......NOT
Well I took it apart and made every other plate neutral and dropped 1 plate. Recruted a small Playmate jug cooler thinking it can handle the heat. At first It looked like I got just what I wanted. Amps were holding at 8.9 volts 12.35 good bubbles and a 2" flame off my HHO candle. YAY!
After the 1hr mark it started to heat up amps started to climb. 18.3amps at 12.28v and a good
3-4" flame. I could tell it was getting to hot so I shut it down. By the time I got the lid off the cooler and took a temp reading the outer cover had split. Hows 196deg sound and thats with 2 diff meters.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - March 21 2012 :  01:37:05  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mad Scientist Man ,
How to cook thing's with HHO , video's by MSM .. lol

Video's would be cool , we all like em , lol


=============================================================================

I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - March 21 2012 :  02:31:23  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
msm:

"After the 1hr mark it started to heat up amps started to climb. 18.3amps at 12.28v and a good
3-4" flame. I could tell it was getting to hot so I shut it down. By the time I got the lid off the cooler and took a temp reading the outer cover had split. Hows 196deg sound and thats with 2 diff meters."

That is the entire reason PWM's are used with HHO. In a nutshell. By bouncing full voltage, but less duty cycle, the plates still see their electrolysis voltage, but you essentially limit the current. I couldn't have made it very far out of town, without mine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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iaec
Forum Admin



1033 Posts

Posted - March 21 2012 :  05:19:59  Show Profile Send iaec a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msmjr,

Nice going on your HHO project...havent read all but will as soon as i get some time :)

TimberJack

Vladimir Zamir Thodé

***Possibilities Within The Impossible***
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 21 2012 :  07:33:47  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi MSM
How did those ali plate's end up ?


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - March 21 2012 :  07:59:29  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TinMan
Actually they held up pretty well for aluminum. The neg plates are discolored and dirty as hell but still functional. But I think Its time for some better materials. I found someone that does comercial kitchen remodeling, trying to talk him out of 1 of those SS sinks. Also have A friend of a friend that can cut the plates with a lazer, he'll cost me a couple of bucks but Ill save in blades and bits. LOL
Hey Kcarring
Was looking at your PWM under Circuts & Diagrams. Is this the 1 I should try? Its far more complicated than anything Ive done so far but Id give it a go. Or should I buy 1? Ive seen them pretty cheep.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - March 22 2012 :  04:59:41  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi MSN
i went and got myself some s/s perforated mesh today-will be building my cell this weekend.
Make yourself a simple pulse generator like i did-it works preaty well.I found the best results with a 50%-mark-space ratio.This can bbe adjusted by useing pot's as resistors.It has a range from 300 htz to 20000 htz and will set you back about 10 bucks


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - May 31 2012 :  08:37:56  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guys
Havent started my new cell yet, got to side tracked. but I got some of these to try.
You must be logged in to see this link.
It may be to light. Let me know what you think.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - May 31 2012 :  11:32:22  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

From what we have seen so far the more edges you have the more H you get. So experiment a way and do a video if you can afford it. The wire bubbler's work well so the screen has a larger area so they should make a lot more bubbles. Good luck and nice find

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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