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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  21:10:37  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Doug,

let's say 18AWG for this example

What formula are you using to calculate this ?

Alan

Edited by - hkalan on February 07 2012 21:15:55
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  21:15:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

18 awg will handle 1.21 amps per strand that is a far cry from 110 ma yep yep

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  21:28:32  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Why would the wire size matter in this formula that I seek ?

Yes an 18AWG wire could handle over 1Amp.... but in reality the most power I have used for a trigger & run coil is 110mA in a SSG system.

To calculate the magnetic force of a coil I used this online calculator... do you think it is accurate ?




Alan
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  21:43:22  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

As SD said.... we can fine tune the circuit with resistors, so how can we have the coil magnetic force to the rotor magnet force balanced, and have the best gap.

I hope to know the answer too.

Alan

Edited by - hkalan on February 07 2012 21:44:32
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  21:45:29  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Yes in one word. I would play around with it a lot more for shorter coil length and thicker dia. That would concentrate the force in a smaller ares. IMHO

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  21:49:46  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

Just thinking what makes the strongest electro magnet? AMPS or voltage??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 07 2012 :  22:05:57  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello SD,

The one factor that was missing was the "Permeability" of the core material.

I called a local factory and they sent me the info on the Ferrite they sell, Have a look at the PERMEABILITY on the data sheet below... and I am going to get several ready made cylinders of 3/4" X 3 1/8" to use as a core to compare with Magnetite, and the iron I use now... More experiments !!!! LOL



Alan
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 08 2012 :  09:22:28  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi SD3T and HK

This is what JB means when he says you have to match the run battery to the coil or the other way around. Different battery means different coil. That is why he has so many machines for different charging. Good Find

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 08 2012 :  11:09:56  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I have communicated with Ron_O and he has listed some great formulas for building coils in the "help each other" thread.

(I need to learn how to use them lol)

Here is the direct link

You must be logged in to see this link.

Alan

Edited by - hkalan on February 08 2012 11:37:27
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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 08 2012 :  12:24:22  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

In your search for the perfect coil and magnet have you considered the battery in to the formula? The battery on the front end and the coil have to be matched also what is you battery bank going to be and then work back wards

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 08 2012 :  20:20:28  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug

That is a good thought.

In my research I have the impression that the amps or voltage in the formula takes that into account.

Alan
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 08 2012 :  22:23:02  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I am reading what Poppy is doing with the Magnetite cores as I wait for my magnetite to arrive. I have been planning to also use a ferrite to compare the Magnetite and Iron rods to.

I found a factory that can supply cylinder sized soft ferrite.

As the pipe I will be using for the new coils are 3/4 inch ID by 3.5 inches long. Here is the image the factory sent me as an example of the solid round ferrite core. I plan to slide it into the core tube.



Alan
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 09 2012 :  01:49:07  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heavy duty coil that one lol

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 09 2012 :  02:56:32  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TM,

It sure would... but they sent me the picture to show the shape of the Ferrite core as the type of coils I (WE) make... LOL

Alan
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 09 2012 :  07:50:27  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok in my experiance with the many coils i have built i have found that the best core material for the hurtz we are talking about in the ssg setup is soft iron rod's.I have used ferrite,crushed ferrite-grafite and also iron fileings.At the pulse frequency that the ssg is cappable of there is no need for ferrite core's,infact the worst results i got were from ferrite core's.
There is one thing i think your missing when trying to match coils with magnets as you will be waisting your time trying to do that.athe reason is because of this-as soon as you adjust that pot your coil will no longer be matched with the permanent magnet.The SSG is best when you have maximum rev's for minimum power consumption.So this brings the question as to were you will have your pot set as to how strong the electromagnet will be-how will you test that strength when you have to have the motor running when you do it at it's optimum performance?Its no good makeing a coil and hooking it up to a 12 volt battery to test it's strength as it will never be recieveing that sort of current through the transistor-I have proven this and shared the result's in the form of vidio's.You will be doing good to put half that current through your transistor.In my test as you can see for your self the coil will only get about 5 volt across it when running at optimal performance.
The other thing is JB's claim that a bifilar coil is the best is absolute rubbish-this i have proven aswell.He says this is tesla's tech,but that couldnt be further from the truth.Tesla's bifilar pancake coil has two wires wound on a flat coil spanning out radialy and then the start of one is linked to the end of the other(hooked in series)JB"s bifilar is two wires wraped together on a coil that starts at one end and continues in layers until you have the number of turns you want-but the two wire's are not hooked together.So as you can see ,the bifilar for the pulse motor is nothing like Tesla's coil's-this is just another sale's pitch that a lot of people fall for.JB,RF and the likes will never be in the same class that tesla was and i think its wrong of them to put tesla's name to there work as the two are nothing alike.
Alan-If you want a coil that performs and i have done many test to confirm this-you need to use layered coil's as the bifilar coil will not give the great performance that is claim'd.The trigger winding on the bifilar coil dose nothing but take up room and mess up the magnetic field that the run winding produces.
Coil rule's of thumb are-generator coils need to be short(normaly as wide as they are high)with the magnets larger than the core.
Pulse coils for motors need to be long(around 3 time long as they are high)and the magnet needs to be some were between half to 3/4 the width of the coil core.The magnetic flux at the back of the coil(with magnet placed on front of coil)only need be strong enough to just hold up a paper clip.The longer the coil(within reason) the more concentraited the field at each end of the coil.A short coil will produce a big round magnetic field around the coil-which you dont want for a pulse motor.

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 09 2012 :  08:05:48  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello TinMan,

Now that is some Kick-Ass Info I have been looking for, and said in really basic vocabulary... I Like it.

One thing that I have been trying to gather as well is about the layering of the wire to make a coil, rather then side by side... There are so many different theories... and I really want to learn what works and what does not... and in today's economy it may not be advised to make every mistake, but rather learn from others on some items !!!

Thanks so Much TinMan..

I really appreciate it !!!

Alan

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 09 2012 :  08:45:53  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi hkalan- i will be building a new type of coil this weekend,one that i have never seen tried befor.It is going to be a true tesla type bifilar coil.I dont know if you seen my vidio i did on the tesla pancake coil but it gave an awsome backEMF spike for 1 ma at 12 volt's input.I have never been able to get a neon to light on 1 ma befor but this one lit up better than most of my ssg setup's that were useing 50ma at 12 volts.It is going to be extreamly hard to wind,but im going to give it a go and see how it performs.

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 09 2012 :  09:35:46  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello TinMan

I am checking your YouTube channel video's.

I am really interested in the coils !!!

Alan
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  02:24:44  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
TinMan,

I was reading your reply on about the dimensions and specs of a coil. I can not find any clearly outlined information of dedicated video of what others have used and compared too... as how wide and long the coils are, or the layers.

You had said that a coil size for what we are doing with pulse motors (with rotor) should be:

1 - Long and Narrow (3 times longer then they are wide)
2 - Wrap the trigger coil first, then wrap the run over the top of that

Do you know of any good video links that others, and myself can view that really focus on how the coil wrap, layer, size wire etc. has been done for comparisons ?

If I make trifler coils... that will be used as 3 run coils on one bobbin, than I would assume that making them in a "Litz" method is best, but the run and trigger combination would work best as layered.

We can see that the Magnetite has advantages, and I hope that following a method to wrap the coil, plus a "dimension" foundation will add to efficiency ! Wire spools are convenient, but I would think there is a size better matched for a pulse motor.

Thanks,

Alan

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  03:22:29  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi hkalan-as far as vidio's on the best coil to build,well i dont know of any other than the one i made comparing a bifilar coil with one of my layered coils.In every situation the layered coil has out performed the bifilar coil in my test and setups.As far as making trifilar coils-well i myself think there a waste of time,all your doing is shareing one collapsing magnetic field between 3 coil's.You will get far better results makeing 3 seperate coil's so each coil has it's own magnetic field.Even JB says you wont get more out by adding extra winding's(another coil) to to a coil-so we have one thing in comon lol.
After building that pancake bifilar tesla coil and seeing the kick back i got from that with 1ma input-i had a brainwave lol.The only problem is this coil will be an absolute *Sweet* to wind lol.Earlier today i was mucking around with it again and placed a flat magnet on top of it(50x25x2mm)and i hit it with 2 volts from my power supply-well the magnet jump'd about 300mm in the air.Also if i place the magnet with the opposite polarity down and to the outside of the coil and hit the coil again with juice-the magnet go's shooting accross the coil at break neck speed.Now remember this is a flat coil(1 wire thick,.55mm)and has no core-but everything about it is powerful.I remember reading that this type of coil with just 12 volts supplied to it has something like a 50 volt potential accross it.
I am about to go and attempt to make one shortly ,so i will let you know how it go's latter on this evening-since we are the same time zone lol.


Edited by - TinMan on February 11 2012 03:25:57
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  04:11:07  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TinMan,

That is fantastic !

Please make a video of the coil you make today !

Chat at you soon !

Alan

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  05:57:45  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TinMan,

Quick question...

With your experiance. Is there a "rule of thumb" or " A Standard" if you will, for the ohms value range a coil should stay within for an SSG Circuit pulse motor.

I am getting different values and opinions online with my search today.

Thanks,

Alan

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  20:58:06  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good Morning,

Thinking last night about what TinMan said about the "single" or "triple " RUN coils on one bobbin. Two thoughts come to mind...

Am I correct with my understanding... A bifilar coil with both 18AWG used as both a RUN coil will share the collapsing of the magnetic field. Therefore a single RUN coil will will get 100% of the collapsing magnetic field, and a bifilar will have 50% on each ???

The second part of my thinking is (if the rotor magnets are North out)... will a single RUN coil have the same magnetic repel force (north to north) as a bifilar RUN coil in driving the rotor for higher RPM's ?

Thanks,

Alan

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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  21:23:58  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey hkalan2007
I wind my coils per Tinman's suggestion in layers triger first the 2 runs 1 on top of the other. Its my understanding that both use the same mag field (sharing) like the Sampu Express.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  21:34:24  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi hkalan-first up,no luck on winding that coil--way to hard to get the winds to stay together when making the second layer.
Ohms across the coil-for 12 volts i would aim for around 4 to 6 ohms,that has been my best conversion rates.For 24 volts 7 to 10 ohm's.
Single and bifilar coil's-A bifilar coil will share the collapsing magnetic field between the two,were as a single layered coil will have it all to itself.With a single layered coil you can get the wire on the spool very neat(neater the better)this make's a very even magnetic field around the core.With a bifilar coil you will never get the wire rap around the core neat and even so the magnetic field will not be as clean as a single layer.Useing the same amount of wire,a single layer coil wound neat will always give a better return(backEMF) and a stronger push on the magnets--unless you can do what i was trying to do and make a coil with multi tesla pancake coil's-now that would kick ass lol

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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  21:39:08  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

In the bedini group I have seen a pic at the last conformance of a guy who build a coil with 145 strands on one coil on a bicycle wheel so with that in mind I don't think that 2 strands would get 50% for each strand. Also he had only 1 trigger for all to work with. On my 42T it also works with no core and on one trigger. Hope that helps

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er

Edited by - 49er on February 11 2012 21:41:45
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 11 2012 :  22:16:54  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Gentlemen,

I see how a single run coil on a bobbin would be perfectly wound (and much more easy to make) for the flow of power to create a better magnetic force, as well as utilize the full collapsing of the magnetic field... That is what I was thinking, and I have been reading in so many places.

That has now made me understand about the "layer" method of making the initial "Trigger/Run" coil. If the trigger winding is neat, thus a better sensing of the magnetic field, and the efficiency of the run coil being neat and evenly wound. It is only logical.

I have been watching some video's on the Tesla Pancake coil... some use the standard CD as the base to hold the wires... even saw one that used one of this mini-CD's and had a great magnetic force with an air-core.

This brings me to the point to make one Trigger/run coil using the layers method, and single run coils.

I will try using the Magnetite core... But I need to also take into account Poppy's results of needing more windings for his coils.

Very good information !!!

Thank you all so much !

Alan







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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  01:03:08  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good Afternoon...

Looking at the geological make-up of Hong Kong Islands, I see it has a high level of Iron. I grabbed a stack of magnets and went down to a beach that was near the cove where NO people go, and drag the magnet under the sand (about 2cm under) and came up with a mix of grain size "black sand: stuck to the magnet... Here is what I will try to use for a few core's



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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  06:13:39  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good Evening,

I have screened the Black Sand I gathered at the beach today, and the larger bits were smashed with a hammer to then be screened again. All of it has been screened several times, as well as cleaned, then dried in the sun.

I found some 90 minute (2 part) Epoxy at a shop on the island (all hardware stores are closed on a Sunday on this island(, and mixed the Black Sand with the Epoxy to a very, Very, Very thick mixture.

It is now inside a 5/8" ID PVC pipe that is 3 1/8" long to dry near the heater for several hours.

I have 200 lb. pull magnets at each END of the core (north to south attraction) that will stay there until it is fully set.

I will make some quick end plates to make it look like a Bobbin that I will turn into a bifilar coil.... LOL that will have 26AWG as a trigger (the first layers) and 23AWG (the next layers) as the run...

So for the testing, I will make a single transistor SSG Circuit that I will incorporate a switched V-doubler using a few 35v 1,000 uf Caps to do a few tests before I replace the coils on the 9 transistor circuit that drives the trolly wheel !

Alan

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Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  06:59:25  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan...

After watching your video it makes me believe that the black sand has a better magnetic attraction than the black iron oxide. I have a feeling (quite a scientific criteria) that the sand will work better than the oxide. Looking forward to seeing your results.

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  07:09:03  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Hkalan-this sounds promising,cant wait to see the results.I tried the coil i used the devcon liquid steel in and it seems to work fine.I havent done any testing as yet as i have been busy making my latest invention lol.This one should open a few eyes.I also have the judge to finish-looks like i will have to make my own armature

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  08:33:01  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Looks like the Black Sand has set...



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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  08:41:58  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gee -havnt you got the thing finished yet>?-what you been doing lol
This should be interesting to see runing.

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iaec
Forum Admin



1033 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  09:19:01  Show Profile Send iaec a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK,

I moved this post of yours here since this is its new home :))

TimberJack

***Possibilities Within The Impossible***

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  09:28:45  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I have cleaned up the Black Sand Core and compared it to a "hanger Core"...





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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  09:47:11  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

As it is Sunday and every place to buy Plastic, wood, metal, and every hardware store is closed on the island... so I improvised...

I used some thin MDF from an old IKEA drawer bottom I disassembled that will be the ends of this bobbin with the the Black Sand Core... I glued on the ends and will let it dry over night and round off the top edges (quarter-round top with a base with a "+" style adjustment) after I wrap the wires in the morning...

It is 10:40PM here and I am going to spend some time with the girlfriend !!!

Here is how I leave the core for the night !





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Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - February 12 2012 :  11:44:21  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan...

Great job on the core!

It looks like it has the same magnetic properties as the Fe3O4.

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  04:56:10  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I have started to wrap the Black Sand Core...

I am going to use a trigger layer first... 750 turns. As I make each layer for the Trigger coil, I will put a piece of paper between each so I can keep the wires tightly together and neat...

Here is the Trigger coil on with 755 turns total... (I get an Ohm reading for the coil of 8.2 seems high to me)



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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  05:51:44  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey HKalan
No 8.2ohms is not to high, you should be fine just means youll have to start lower on your resistance to the pot.
Lower right? Ive had 1 as high as 9ohms and have heard as high as 12ohs, works but I wouldnt go any higher.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  09:46:28  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Well.... I goofed !!!!

I put on the 26AWG trigger wire today, and had to go into the office for some evening appointments with my patients. Got home and while I was still thinking about work (not looking close enough). I grabbed another spool of 26AWG (not the 23AWG) and put on 755 more turns....

Hooked it up to a single transistor SSG with a CD rotor with 4 magnets.. I have heard that buzz/hummmm noise before LOL..

Checked the voltage on the charge battery... It is charging without the rotor turning... I know what that means !!!!!!!

Took a close look at the spool... Both Run and Trigger are 26AWG...

I was not paying attention... Damn... I have to redo the run coil.... It has come to my attention, that I was NOT paying attention !!! LOL

Alan


Edited by - hkalan on February 13 2012 10:07:00
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  17:14:18  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol-self oscilation,but i dont think that changing the run wire size will get rid of that lol.You may have to go to the power saver circuit to stop it.

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49er
Administrator



USA
4443 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  18:44:12  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi HK

I once wound a coil for my bic wheel it was 3000 turns of 26 awg and the wheel really turned LOL about 57 rpms. So I rewound to 4 coils and then it ran just fine. If I remember right it had 92 or 98 ohms LOL LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  21:47:06  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,
What is a "Power Saver Circuit" ???

I just put another 700 turns of 23 gauge over the 2 layers of 26 gauge... it still makes the same buzz/hum, but the charge battery is not receiving a charge as it was before while "Self-oscilating"... and still does not work.

Guess I will take off all the wire and use the standard "Side by Side" bifilar winding as I have always used.

The rotor magnets still attract very well to the Black Sand Core... seems to be about the same as the hanger wire when there is a gap between the rotor and coil. I have a very good feeling about this core... just need to have the right wire on the right way... LOL

Alan

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Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - February 13 2012 :  23:52:39  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan...

It seems to be catching. I haven't tried a standard bifilar coil yet with the Fe3O4 core. Maybe that's the correct answer. Or perhaps, as in The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe, the correct answer is 42.

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 14 2012 :  03:19:41  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

I took a Bifilar (23AWG run and 26AWG Trigger with 800 wraps) off my 9 transistor circuit and removed the hanger wire core. Made a mix of 90 minute Epoxy and the Black sand.

Here is what happened after 2 hours of dry time !!!



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Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - February 14 2012 :  07:53:14  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan...

That's great!

I've got 2 Fe3O4 coils that don't work at all and they both have over 900 turns of trigger wire and 1000 turns of run wire. The cores are 1/2". The one that works is a little over 3/4" with the same windings. Go Figure.

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 14 2012 :  10:54:22  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Poppy,

The core in the video with 800 turns is 5/8 inch diameter.

Even with the shrinking when it dried, I am really impressed !!!

Going to the beach tomorrow to get more Black Sand and do all my coils.

Alan

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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 15 2012 :  00:21:06  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey SD...

Brilliant idea !!! LOL

Here is a new video of a core with the Black Sand without any epoxy...



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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - February 15 2012 :  02:25:32  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello,

Here is some information for a lesson well learned...

I am going to stay with using Epoxy with the Black Sand.

Even if one uses Aluminum tape, then covered with gaffer (Duct) tape. When the rotor is sitting still and doing nothing, the magnetic attraction of the magnet to the core begins to do the inevitable ! The packed (Not with a bonding agent) Black Sand will slowly be pulled by the magnets on the rotor to make an opening on the sides of the tape for the Black Sand (Fe3O4) to leak out... then when you turn on the system you will have black Sand accumulating on all your magnets... LOL

Have a look...





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Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - February 15 2012 :  19:51:07  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Alan...

I'm not one who uses the well know texting language but...ROFLMAO on that one.

I believe that happened because the magnetic properties of the sand is greater than that of Fe3O4 and it probably doesn't pack as tightly. I removed the oxide from the last coil I made and it was quite a job to get it out.

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