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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  14:28:01  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
haha YO WOMAN! LEAD PUDDLE... BAD! BAD!

Here's one from last night, this was after it's first cycle of TSO


Area Temperature 0C / 32F




I think I need to build something a bit bigger, mine is 4T, maybe 7-10T.
It takes a few days for charge portion of cycles. Kinda slow.
Then again, with 24 watts in... i wont go there LOL im a skeptic
haha
On second thought I could use about ten new chargers lol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 27 2012 14:51:59
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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  16:46:23  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KC

Try the TSO on 24 v to 12 and just charge the bank with the solar much better and you might be able to charge 2 in 12v and discharge 24 v 2 batterys at the same time LOL thats what it was built for.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  17:12:10  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Doug, I have done that, thing is, I condition batteries, then I give them away to people who live at a distance, so I've been trying to teach them how to build a circuit, but often it's a bit much. Usually I get "Listen, Coiler.. you build the thing, and I'll buy it" LOL, but, out of respect to JB I do not do that...at all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 30 2012 :  00:43:56  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@49er

I remember a while back you were talking about testing a theory on using no longer than an amp or two input / charger TSO for desulphating batteries. Did you ever conclude on that theory? My TSO inputs about 1.8A, typically, the way I use it anyhow, my AC 24V supply is only good to 34 watts, so I do not push it.

I am curious, as I read more and more about charging lead acid batteries in general, and about topping charges, and also equalize (especially equalization) - theories vary a bit.

i've read, that while equalizing, any amount of boiling is indication of liberation of hydrogen, and while it is agreed, it is, at this point that capacity is restored, and desulphation occurs, the other edge of the sword is corrosion of the positive plate is also occurring.

So, it stands to reason that our use of the TSO makes perfect sense, we are taking the voltage high, with (by comparison) less "boiling", if you will... but...

I ask myself, what is the real problem. The battery starts acting like an electrolyser at this point.. granted. So it loses hydrogen, and thus the electrolyte become more corrosive? Maybe a long slow cold boil is best? not sure. Some conventional theories are that a typical forklift battery should be held at 16+, with high amps (about 10) and hard boiled for like 3 hrs. (I'm not so sure I agree!) In essence it is like a double edge sword, what cures one problem, causes another...

Question:
49er

If you are on say 3rd or 4th cycle of a battery that will not go to 16+V, but shows -some- sign of improvement - i.e 15.25V first cycle, 15.5V second... etc...

Do you keep pushing each cycle for higher voltage? (keeping in mind I do remember your tip of watching for a levelling, and a 0.02V drop, to "pull the plug"

Also, while desulphating, we take the battery pretty high up on voltage ---

During a normal charge (if you were to use a Bedini or TSO) during normal use (and I know you dont typically do this because you solar charge) --

Would you just go to a typical 14.7-14.8V? Avoid that "corrosion" area, or, do you see no harm in taking to 15+ everytime, albeit pulse charging / low current.

Thanks


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 30 2012 02:19:01
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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - November 30 2012 :  09:29:28  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KC

Its hard to know what state your battery is in with voltage charge alone that is up to 16.2 volts and if it doesn't get there in 4 trys don't try to push it harder because I have never been able to really do it just to see if I can. I think its a combination of use (drain) and charge in a length of time. Example a golf cart used every day,use in the morning and put on charge at night for 4 days in a row that type of usage will make the battery stronger for a time. Your self when diving under water many times in a row the last time you dive you may stay under 2X as long as the first if you follow where I am going. So when you charge a battery you have to consider this in your evaluation of what to expect out or input into the battery.
The voltage drop of .002/3 is just my way of knowing when the battery hits it peak on that charge (r/c cars knowledge from 30 yrs ago) lol.
The statement of acid is more corrosive is something I have been working on and really haven't come up with a reason as yet. All I know is the battery uses more water to charge in the same time frame as others in the bank and it leaves a black infusion coating on the positive post but haven't looked at the plates. I have 4 of them in one of my NO# 4 bank and over the last 2 month 3 of them have went back to normal water usage but center cell in the 4 battery was still very low in the same time frame. I have suspected that battery was boiled dry in its golf cart days but will never know. Time and every day usage is the best cure for know at least in my case. Have to run Hope this helps


Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 30 2012 :  12:52:20  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Doug, every bit of your input is very helpful. This time round I am charting everything out. Eventually, i won't bother, but I'm finding that with my life - the way I'm running around all the time, keeping different hours... charting REALLY helps me see what is happening, and I had a few days here to pay closer attention. The data i am getting is positive... although, the temperatures have been fluctuating. I helped build two straw bale battery houses this fall, and I hope to build one for myself, too, help stabilize things - she gets cool up here some nights in Canada. And then really hot in August too, hotter than people would think, sometimes 110F even. Straw bale seems to be a cheap way of stabilizing things.
This the plan we've been (sort of) following
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Cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 30 2012 12:52:45
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 20 2013 :  18:02:24  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never seen this before and don't know what to make of it..

Have a new battery, from a friend, with slightly blown sides.
These usually go the the back of the line.
Well time came up for it.

Did my new test of metering each cell and tested well.
Couple weak, but all positive (unlike the killer one that looks great).

First check was 6.4v's
Hooked her up to the SS SSG with 12v source and jumped to 22v's..

Have not seen a battery do this before..
Figuring it was just thirsty, I let her run.

Voltage coming down, relief...

I'm assuming she's just so dry, she'll take everything she can get.
Also assuming she'll settle at what she needs... At some point.

Tuned down at least half way on the pot to get at a point of reasonable run (from the last battery online).

I have never seen this before...

Before you ask... Well below C20 rate (1/4 of just to test) and only my 4T on her (again just to test).






Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 20 2013 :  19:40:09  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Settling out after 3 hrs at 13.5v
Happy where she's settling.

Best I can read is she's probably a 65-70aH battery new.

Now that I'm comfortable, I'm going to let her run.
Tomorrow will tell a tale I'm sure..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - August 20 2013 :  20:22:33  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
BUCK BUCK BUCK, BUCK BUCK

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 21 2013 :  17:44:52  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
She's settled down nicely..
Scared the heck out of me!
Just never saw that before..

Then again, I've blown transistors on dumber idea's..

Going through the D/C now.
Still staying lite..
Still kinda scared of what I saw...

Next charge cycle will tell the tale.

Normal would be nice..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - August 21 2013 :  20:19:43  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

It will take a while before it settles down so expect it to happen again.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 22 2013 :  06:51:32  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have 2 calcium batteries to use on my solar and both jump to over 20v before settling down to a lower voltage when charged on my TS 10.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - August 22 2013 :  07:52:06  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

I don't remember you making a calcium battery? Did you put it on a thread??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 22 2013 :  16:04:37  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The battery settled down... all is good..
Second charge cycle is running normal.
It may just be a 'Keeper'.

Thank you Guys!
Now I know it's normal to see this on a very 'thirsty' battery.
Good God Man... Just never saw that before...


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  10:51:32  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

What have you found out after 2 weeks??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  12:05:08  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The battery that shotup so high is coming around nicely.
She's settling now in the mid 12's and may be all she has to give..
Time will tell.
I just put it in service as my entry lighting source power and will run it all week checking how she's doing.
Then put her back on the ssg and give her another run.

The other one that gave me that strange voltage read cell to cell..
That ones a problem child..
Ran that one a week C/DC cycles and never broke 4v's on ssg and rest just over 2v's.
Gave it a break to work with the one that scared me.

Hoping to find some time today (end of the long weekend) to continue the upgrade of the ss ssg.
Looking to setup a 5T addition that I can put inline as I see the need.
The problem child may need the extra boost.
Reality is my bank is growing and will continue.
Would like to have the ss ssg up to snuff to run it on the bank.

Thanks for checking up on me!!

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  12:13:10  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Are you going to run the SS SSG on mains power or the bank power??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  15:14:07  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR

Are you going to run the SS SSG on mains power or the bank power??



At this point in time, I see the SS SSG running is on mains.
It's the only appliance I have that runs for that kind of duration in the workshop.
Last time I did it, power went out (not my fault really..) and I was looking for power..
Till I build the bank up enough.. Mains for now.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  15:34:13  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

If you do it right you charge the battery with solar one day and then use that battery to run the SS SSG the next. The one you charge with the SS SSG run it for the inverter one day and another the next. If you follow my drift that is if you have that many batteries.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  17:23:21  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that's a concept I hadn't reached..

Also why I ask such questions...

"If you do it right you charge the battery with solar one day and then use that battery to run the SS SSG the next. The one you charge with the SS SSG run it for the inverter one day and another the next. If you follow my drift that is if you have that many batteries."

This sounds to me to be a 3 bank system.
A charge battery (solar)
A maintenance battery (ss ssg source)
A use battery (charged from the ss ssg)

I am impressed with what you've done.
I'll get there... maybe close.. well.. maybe enough for my use..

Now I have to understand where the solar ss ssg comes int this.
If running correctly, seems to skip a step..





Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  17:55:23  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Just remember don't waste the energy use it all.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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jneo
Junior Member



Australia
96 Posts

Posted - October 16 2016 :  02:00:58  Show Profile Send jneo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey all i have built an ssg wheel type basic circuit when I charge up a battrey it goes to a full charge at laest 14.5 volts
But when I use that charged Battery to run the ssg it does not seem to have a good charge does not last long?
Would anybody know Jneo
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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - October 16 2016 :  15:52:09  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Jneo

What you are experiencing is, the battery is charged from the back side and can be used for any resistance load BUT it will not last as long because the plates are in the process of being desulfated. What you need to do is leave at rest for 24 hrs. Then start to charge with a positive charge and may take 2 to 3 charges to come back to a full charge. Note , if you keep negative charging the battery it will keep getting worse. This type charging is only once in a while when sulfating is needed. You CAN just put in a FWBR and still use the motor for what ever you want and NOT hurt the charge battery.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - October 26 2016 :  05:15:22  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi Dave

I don't remember you making a calcium battery? Did you put it on a thread?


Hi Doug.

The two batteries were given to me. They were shop-bought and one was previously used in a Ford Transit van.
The smaller of the two has been running my car for the last 2 or 3 years, after the original car battery died.
The other one still runs my solar lights.

I heard they are much more costly than a lead acid to buy, but I can not fault these in any way.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - October 26 2016 :  08:22:20  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

NO I have not even heard of a calcium battery. LOL I hate old age. How has it been working for you?? Tell us about, what do you fill it with, how often does it need it? How does it let amp in and out? So if you have it in a car it must do pretty good on all the questions.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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