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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 06 2012 :  02:32:25  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@49er

"charge in daylight but not at over one amp, this is new theory of mine"

I kind of hope that theory works out, because I also have a theory I am working on. It kind of goes like this:

If you have tried running a TS SSG or even an SSG on pure solar, you've probably found out, like me, that well, it kind of sucks. That is because the near 1K frequencies we work with produce a nearly 50% duty cycle. In doing so, you may have seen my diagram of the ramped input; and thus the problem: The filling of the inductor requires a moment in time when the amp demand FAR exceeds the root mean average input requirement, so, for example -- a circuit that reads 1A input, for a few microseconds is actually calling for something like 10A. Now, to get around this some people, myself included have tried adding about 30,000 uF at say 50V, some nice electrolytic cans parallel. Problem is, they still don't cut it. The overall charging effect is diminished, hugely. So, in the end you may have 30 watt solar input, and only a root mean requirement of 24 watts input, but, the circuit performs like you are feeding it 10 watts from the wall :(

So here is the concept;

If your theory holds true that a nice longer prolonged input at 1A is actually desired, what we can do it run a larger charger, say 13T + but at a much higher frequency. This in turn will reduce the duty cycle. Coupled with a a reasonable bank of capacitance we may be able to hit that 1A, straight off the panels. If 50V caps are used (better they be 60 or 80 though) the panels can be ran series to produce ample potential for the TS SSG running 24V for 12's or in parallel to do 6's.

an idea anyway.

there is another concept that may work too. If one were to take 2 or 3 panels in series say, at a nominal 48-60V.. and then use a very high frequency buck to fill caps at 24V it would run at say around 20-40 KHZ sending nice current to fill a large bank. That circuit would be like a fuel injector for large TS SSG that could then draw bigger gulps for the caps. When the cap voltage reached a minimum threshold, the PIC would then add resistance to the base circuits (thus raising the frequency and lowering the input) until such time that the caps reached their nominal 24V. Sort of like fuel injection with governor.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on April 06 2012 02:37:36
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 06 2012 :  03:02:34  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Please bear in mind I am not saying the SSG or TS SSG doesn't do a good job of charging, quite the contrary... we all know that by now, it's a far healthier way to charge and seems to continuous improve tired batteries!

What I am saying, is, that for any given amount of energy available, from a solar panel, say 20V at 2.5A, the SSG, by nature of how it draws current, is always asking for "more" than the linear style output of the panel... and thus is "curbed".

In a sense, it'd be really neat to build a microprocessor circuit that knew what the SSG "had available" and would govern it...

A lot of people would argue, "Kyle, the caps will fill up, and the circuit will in fact, use it, at some point, so nothing is really wasted..." But my argument is, OK, true BUT the nature of the oscillator, by nature of the fact that it is wanting to drive the coil until input ceases to "change", i.e. it becomes like a DC circuit almost, and at that point .. that very point is when the base is shut down, input stops and you now get your "pulse" or your spike... IF in fact the energy available is being "cut" off, or, another way of looking at it is, the ramp up levels off, you are shutting off the base prematurely, and thus reducing the peak available impulse, you are not getting your tallest "spike" - and this is true, if you hold a meter and look at your output voltage on a solar panel producing 20V 1A, open circuit, attached to a Bedini, and compare that to a wall wart input of 12-14V @ 1A, the circuit can get what it needs from the transformer and produce a cleaner, taller spike.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - April 06 2012 :  19:56:38  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kc

what you are forgetting is as the battery gets more of a charge the resistance goes down and the battery doesn't ask for a big charge. That is not the fault of the ssg but the battery where as the wall wort doesn't see that as much and over charges the battery with heat.. IMHO

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 09 2012 :  23:59:57  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@49'er not sure exactly where you are drawing the comparison, I was referring to an SSG driven by a wall wart, vs. an ssg driven by a solar panel + caps, specifically, in neither case was I referring to hooking up a battery directly to a wall wart..if that is what you are referring to...

you do bring up a good point though, I do not recall making particular point of where the charge battery was, for voltage when I used it.

Are you stating that an ssg, when connected to a wall wart will, in fact "overpower/charge" the battery and drive in more of a charge than the battery needs at that point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - April 10 2012 :  13:59:20  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kc

yes IMHO there is not a resistance for the charge battery to read just power.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - April 10 2012 :  15:33:59  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@49'er.. yes it, it is all rather confusing. Next experiment I do, I'll take the output of my solar panel on a good, consistent day when I can gave between 1-2A off the 30W panel. I'll split the panel into (2) 15's (thats what they are, 2 15W's). Then, I'll go head to head with 2 identical batteries both depleted to 11.5V. I'll make sure that their readings are as close to identical as possible, and that the voltages have been stabilized over a period, say over night.

Then I put the two panels head to head, one charging a battery through a basic PWM charge controller, the other through a TS SSG.

And see which one hits 12V first. Not a very scientific test, mind you, but... probably a more realistic test than putting a TS SSG running off the wall, up against solar.

Not too concerned whether the TS SSG can charge faster, as the PWM cannot desulphate; so that's not the point. I'm more interested in finding out if the TS SSG can be coupled to solar output in way that just makes more sense, if you follow; more efficient, if efficiency is a problem...

I'm coming to the conclusion that a simple way to possibly do it may be to just have that buffer battery there, and have a circuit adjust the pot of an SSG such that it's draw is ALWAYS less than what is coming off the panel, or, more simply done; just makes sure it cannot take that buffer battery below a certain point, and when it does, switch the solar output to replenishing the buffer battery itself, which will probably end up being the most sensible arrangement. Another interesting variant might be to have 3 15's running at 36V charge, to then have a 36V battery bank, providing constant voltage / constant current to a 24V TS SSG, desulphating a 12V RV bat. That would probably provide ample "overkill".


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on April 10 2012 15:37:08
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - April 10 2012 :  16:08:52  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kc

An idea I have had floating around is use a diode to control the back feed from the battery and use a 12v relay to control the panel to the TS and that way you get a contact that will oscillate and when the sun goes down it shuts off the relay and the diode will not it back feeding.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 08 2012 :  16:31:18  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ALL

SD3T and my self have been doing some research on T105 CART batteries and believe we have stumbled upon a way of desulfating a dead won't start to take a charge. We both have had a few of the T105 that would start out at between .38 volts to 3.4 volts and a conventional charger only makes the battery hot. The charger we are using is a Tesla Switch type pulse charger and you can use it for the HHO control project and it also makes a real good charger for 6 volt batteries. A few members have made this style unit but up to now only SD3T and I have made very big ones and this is where the difference has showed it self so at this point I will let SD3T jump in and tell what he has found and make the next post.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 19 2012 :  19:56:49  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi SD3T

I like it.....Good video

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - June 20 2012 :  05:32:38  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok i have a question about a battery
My dad left me his car when he passed.He had a new battery put in it just befor he became ill,and only used the car once.
The battery was left unused for about 3 month's,and the emobleiser has drained all life out of it.I would say it has been dead flat for about a month now.It has one of them little indicator glasses on it(green for good,red for flat)
So i have had it on the charger for 2 day's solid now,and the indicator is still red-and the battery only has about 2.5 volt's in it.This drop's over night to about 1.7 volt's.
So what has happened?This battery is only about 4 months old and hasnt done much work at all.
Is it caktus now after being flat for a month?-Can it be saved?

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - June 20 2012 :  08:24:55  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

With a drain on it forever it hurt it about as bad as can be put on a battery. If it won't take a conventional charge then put the biggest pulse charge that you can muster but not bigger than the C20 of the batt. I am thinking of your pulse welder just don't let it go over 15 volts and may be 15 amps for a short time. This is a shock charge and will burn its way into the plates. You want to just do this until it starts to hold a charge. One hr would be a long time but if it doesn't hold after that time its a paper weight.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - June 21 2012 :  02:33:48  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah some shock treatment to bring back the dead.
Will give it a shot and see what happen's
Thanks 49er

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - June 21 2012 :  08:04:41  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

Let me know how it turn out.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - June 24 2012 :  09:31:47  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er
Um i think the little tig welder is not such a good charger lol.There was smoke within 2 minute's lol
I can only drop the amps down to 20 amp's.I think this was to much as it started to bubble and hydrogen gas was comeing out the fill hole's within two minutes-so i switched it off.
I might try my 24 volt transformer that is rectified but no smoothing cap's.This will give me a 50 htz pulse at 24 volt's--What you think?
I believe it was a good thing i wasnt haveing a cigaret when the smoke came lol.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - June 24 2012 :  14:25:51  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

I don't think 24 volts is good for that battery 16.2 volts is about the max I like to use. Did the shock to any thing to the battery?? hold volts better? or resting voltage up from what it was??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - June 24 2012 :  22:29:40  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just checked it and yes,it is now holding at 8.4 volts.
Maybe i should try charging it now?or give it some more shock theropy? lol
I will await your thoughts befor i do one or the other

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - June 26 2012 :  22:18:40  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

I would try standard charger for 12 hrs. Then if it doesn't respond shocked it a little at a time NO SMOKE

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - June 28 2012 :  08:10:19  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok this battery is possessed lol
Held 8.3-4 volt's for 2 days-place on conventional charger over night.Charged to 11.72 volt's.
1 hour later,droped to 3.87 volt's. next hour-droped to 3.4 volts???
I think the next treatment will be preasure treatment-where i drive over it with the tractor to see how much preasure it can take befor it collapses lol.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - June 28 2012 :  11:18:48  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like a battery I had after I doused it with backing soda...... :-)
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - June 28 2012 :  11:19:39  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe you picked the one up that I left at the dump after playing Dr. Fraknestein with it.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - June 28 2012 :  21:39:53  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

That sounds like it needs a strong SS SSG but may be not like I said its a paper weight for that big wind storm..LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - June 29 2012 :  00:21:16  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@49er

Could you give us an update on how many 6 volts you've revived, the status of your overall bank, estimated amp hours, what it can accomplish, etc., a basic summary of what's been happening with "the pile" :) That'd be cool.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - June 29 2012 :  14:16:09  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kc

Your questions are easy so here they are 1- the banks of 4 are at 10,000 ah total 2- have recovered around 70 6 volt cart batteries. Over all battery health is around 90% when my wife doesn't use the washer every day. With the 4 banks all on line I have a real need for more power and that is why I am adding more panels. Hope that is enough for your questions

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 01 2012 :  07:41:05  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey 49er
Not sure if you seen the charge rate on my LFMG-but befor i smoked the coils i managed to get that stubourn battery back to health with it.
It is now like new-the little round window now show's green insted of red with a black ring around it.
It is steady at 13.7 volts ,and starts my car no problem.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 01 2012 :  12:24:16  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

13.7 volts I hope that is not at rest?? It sounds good that it did bring it back from the grave. When will we see more of the motor??


Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 01 2012 :  18:53:06  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er
I have to rewind the two run coils ,as i cooked them along with nearly everything else between the coils and battery-transistor shorted.I think it was because the ohms was to low in the run coils.
But now the run coils read only 1.1 ohms ,insted of the 3.2 ohms they started with-so safe to say they are shorting somewhere after the toasting.
Im going to rewind them when i get 4 hours to spare lol.Going to go a smaller wire and higher ohms(more turns) this time,and see how that go's.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 03 2012 :  08:26:38  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

It may be possible that the battery is what shorted out and took your coil out. If your battery was 13.7 at rest that is not good. you didn't say if your battery was still good?? SD is having trouble with the cell of his HHO and blowing transistors and diodes because of his plates making a battery and he is pushing it. In my way of thinking you may have pushed your motor beyond the battery and it gave up and dyed on you..

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 05 2012 :  06:39:31  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er
The coils went into meltdown when i had it on a diferent battery-the transistor shorted.
The big battery in question has been in my 4x4 for the last 3 days,and it is doing fine so far.
I have given it a good run at night with the lights on and heater on flat out,and she still starts fine on a cold morning.
Looks like we may have saved it.
I have a couple of other dead batterys lying around,so im going to give them a whirl on the LFMG as soon as she is back up and running.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 05 2012 :  17:29:12  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

That is what I want to see. Can't wait

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 11 2012 :  23:17:23  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi doug
I have aquired some large battery's from work.They are old one's that have been replaced.
I am putting the L.F.M.G back together to do some charging-but i have a question.
On one of the batterys(the biggest one)there is a clear round window that is suppose to tell you the condition of the battery--green good-red bad.
The window on this battery is green,which should mean it is good-but it wont even start my car???
So why would it be green and not red if it is flat?.I have tried charging it,but it wont charge?
Any idea's?

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - August 12 2012 :  06:53:47  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey TM
The eye is basically a hydrometer just telling you the state of charge. A quick test is to measure voltage while trying to crank the car. Ill bet it drops bellow 10.8v, which means that 1 or more cells are highly sulfated or internally damaged. Like your dads battery, a couple 2 or 3 CD’s will show weather or not it will come back to life. I had one out of the last batch of industrial batteries wouldn’t even light a light bulb fully when I hooked my 5t TS charger up it shot up to 22v. Im on my 4th charge now and its seems to be straightening out fine.


Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 12 2012 :  09:47:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

My first guess it is out of water. If not then it is shorted or very very bad sulfation. If it is not water then do a charge for 30 min and discharge until the small light (tail light) goes out. Don't rest it go right back at it. do this for a hole day, then rest it on a charge cycle and see what it tells you for voltage after. pulse charge wood be the best but either will do for this. HTH

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 12 2012 :  19:52:33  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Doug
I will give that a try

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  00:20:28  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Folks,

I canabalized 2 old electric push scooters to make a bicycle driven generator.

You must be logged in to see this link. Tell me if you need to see the pic and you are not part of facebook, but I forgot how to post the pic on the forum which is not that necessary to see anyway.


My question is the two generators are each putting out about 24-25 volts. In this case can I put 2 12v batteries in series and charge them up, and will the batteries charge up evenly? If I petals slower it goes down to about 18v. What would be the highest voltage be to charge up a 12v battery be? Thanks in advance for ideas.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  10:33:38  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here shak-this will help out on posting pic's
Thanks to twally
You must be logged in to see this link.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 13 2012 :  12:58:18  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi shak

I think that is a cool build.. In answer to you questions there are some things I need to know. What is each gen put out for volts and amps?? how long can you petal at any given speed? You will need 2 diodes at or more than the gen puts out in amps. what I am thinking is 15 volts under load max. So hook up one gen only to a battery and put a volt meter on it, petal to the 15 volts and see if you can do that for 20 min. We can go from that info.. good luck

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  04:59:26  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi 49er,

thanks. I metered each motor and they put out about 26v at a steady pedal, not fast not slow. Amps.... I have had the worst luck measuring amps on anything with my meter, i.e. I've never been able any gadget, however luckly one motor says 200w and the other says 135w, so we can surmise it would be about 8 and 6 respectively. My plan was to connect the motor outputs in parallel and hook it up to 2 12v in series once I am as strong as greg lamond. But for now I disengage the belt of one of the genies to keep my pace more stable which I know I can pull off for 20 min.
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  05:03:00  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One other question. It seems the voltage spike method of charging seems better for the battery. With the genrator though it would be hard to have it go through a bendini circut. Would just haveing like a 450v cap that has a little and a little spark gap by the cathode ending into the battery create that phenomena. I.e. When it gets up to 450v the spark is produced- shooting into the battery. Could the geny charge up the cap like that?
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49er
Administrator



USA
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Posted - August 14 2012 :  09:03:54  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi shak

Yes the gen could charge a cap like you suggest. The problem is handling your amps, at max amps is around 14 which will not go through a cap system well. What I would suggest is a TS SS SSg like KC put together for his solar with a big transistor and a heavy diode and some big caps. The 24 volts from the motor will go straight into the TS and you will charge a 12 v battery which you will learn is easyer than 24 volt batteries. This is also going to be faster to charge the battery less pedaling for you at a time and you will only need to use one gen, less work for you.LOL HTH

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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shakamuni01
Average Member



USA
213 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  09:38:54  Show Profile Send shakamuni01 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
hmmm I thought the TS had to be a pretty stable source of power because it works on the coil resonating. Anyway worth a try. Haven't got around to getting the TS fully done since I got back to Bali so its worth a try. I could definately lower the amps down to about 6 and pulling 2 gens in quite a bit.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  09:43:38  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug
Just need your thoughts on a idea
As you know with my L.F.M.G ,i can generate DC as well as the high voltage backEMF.
I was thinking of putting both sources to charge and recondition these big batterys i have scored.
So dc from my generaqtor side and backEMF from the bedini side both going into the battery at the same time-diodes on the gen side ofcourse to stop the backEMF going to the voltage doubler.
Whats your thoughts on this idea?

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

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49er
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USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  10:15:59  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TM

The best way is up to you. What we have used in the past is either but no both because we have been told gen charges + to - and pulse charges - to + and for that I would say one way or the other will work. If you need to recondition them which is what you have asked then pulse the bad ones and if you run the unit with a battery which is what I would suggest because you need to discharge the batteries also use the energy. So what i am saying is pulse one battery, gen to another and a third for running your unit. That way you can rotate and if you want to rest a battery use a forth. That is the fastest way I know to recondition you batteries. How many do you have??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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TinMan
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4082 Posts

Posted - August 14 2012 :  18:47:09  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug
I have 6 so far,but i have another 10 comeing.
We have two pallet loads of old 4x4 batterys.Some look a bit worse for wear,but the 16 i put aside look near new.
!3 of them still have around 12.3 to 12.7 volts in them-So going to start with the ones with the lowest voltage first.
The boss said some of them will still be good,as people leave there lights on while shopping,flatten the battery and then just come and buy a new one.
So first up i will try chargeing with a normal charger to sort out the good from bad.
Then start the reconditioning process on the bad one's.

We also sell invertors and solar pannels-so next on the list is a 3000 watt invertor.I have already scored a 500 watt invertor that came back on waranty.Took it apart last night and found a dry solder joint on the 12 volt input.Fixed that ,and she is all up and going.
I can get a 3000 watt invertor for around $380.oo cost price-so not to bad.But the solar pannels are only 80 watt pannels-$225.oo each,so may have to shop around a bit on them.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

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msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - September 24 2012 :  21:36:19  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Doug
Ive got a question. 3 batterys out of the last batch are doing the exact same thing. They were in very bad shape, very low on water and around 3-6 volts. First I tried my 5T hooked up TSO style. The best I could get 10.9v after 2 days and all I was doing is killing my good batts. Ive switched back to SS and ran both chargers on the same battery. Volts go up to 12.6 at first then settle in at 10.9v 2-days running. The first 1 finally got up to 11.7v after 24hrs.

Do I just keep at or am I fighty a lossing battle?

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
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49er
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USA
4426 Posts

Posted - September 25 2012 :  08:58:48  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi msm

It sounds like you have a shorted cell. All the charging in the world wont bring them back. You can try turning them upside down drain all the acid out then wash (spray out) all the sediment you can. Then refill with the same acid and do strain it so that it is as clean as it can be. recharge and HOPE.. I have 3 of them and haven't cleaned them yet but I charge them and use them for lights they do work on 5 cells very well for lights for the house. It is probably going to be a 25% Chance to work.. Good Luck

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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msmjr
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USA
444 Posts

Posted - September 25 2012 :  22:52:32  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Doug
I think your right, time to give up on these guys. Ive tried the drain, clean and fill without much success so I think Ill swap em out for some more.

Growing old is mandatory, Growing up......optional.
He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
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kcarring
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Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 25 2012 :  14:49:29  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hoping 49er might have a peek at this and offer advise. I think I have not been taking my batteries quite high enough, however with 4T, and less than 2A input, maybe I won't get there with the average used battery I come across, not sure.



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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - November 26 2012 :  09:33:32  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KC

The low amps will take longer and that is all. If you were to raise the amps at that point it would zoom up to 16.2 in a very short time. This is why we just watch the volt meter to see when it starts to fall and that means that it has as much as it can take just like you said in another post somewhere LOL trust your self you already have the knowledge you know that.. again lower amps just takes longer.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  03:18:11  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
|Thanks Doug! Turth is i don't know *Nice*, you know that hahahaha

Well, all I know is, I got a lot of junked batteries in use out there on 4 properties keep many a hippy illuminated LOL

By the way, that UPS is just, now, showing failure. Remember we talked about loads, and what it could handle, and you warned me it might melt? LOL Well, turns out I never did load it down to 1000 watts...

But it get loaded it down to 700 watts. And actually 600 quite frequently..

you see... this time... there was a woman behind the inverter LOL
and you might even know how that works LOL

I did learn one valuable thing out of it all...

"Bedini'd" UPS VRLA batteries can be solar charged but not REAL well, if they are not "RE-Bedini'd" or, let's just say "equalized". That said, nearly all solar charge controllers will (if they have the ability to) try to equalize the cells as if they were lead acid...
and the average UPS, or VRLA really needs to be taken up to 15V, and given a lower current at that voltage for a while.
(then again some of us would say that of lead acid too! Or even higher...)

*see note below

They can take big loads, but they really need to be recharged, quickly after. So they do suck for solar really, but who cares they are free and they save this woman a lot of money in gasoline LOL I couldnt stand to watch her running a 4500 watt genset to operate a 10A battery charger, it was killing me LOL (and her wallet). So away she went and all was well, until the sun stopped shining, and the old charging gear came out...



I've re-read this thread several times in the last week, it really has some great nuggets of information you've put forth, and if you can get through the pollution I've added, it's a great thread LOL

The one piece I'm looking for is what you considered a practical, workable, C40 "plateau" voltage, and how much importance do you put on this, when matching sets up.

Meaning if a 1275 Trojan battery rated at 150 aH, for example, is loaded to C40 (C20 would be somewhere near 8A, so let's consider a 50 watt halogen at around 4.5A) -- what voltage should it drop to, bu tthen hold a good long time - that operational plateau.


For example I have one fellow I set up with a set that holds 12.2 - maybe only delivers 30aH, but its all matched and he's happy as heck.

Another set 12.4

But what operational level do you consider to be the point at which desulphation is complete, time to go to work? 12.4 I thought you said...

By the way, i never charge people for these batteries I buy them and give them away. Just so you know. I do this cause I like this. I'm rewarded in other more cool ways than monetarily.

cheers

* note below:
By the way (everyone) one trick I have learned, if you do not have a Bedini or TSO capable of running off solar (I do and it works great) - what you CAN do is rig your setup (solar) to allow you to bypass the charge controller. Instead charge up some healthy caps, like at least 30,000 uF. You need a charged bank (or, so your controller says...) and some good strong sun. the panels will charge your caps up to say 21-22V. Then you need a cap dump circuit, now for some that might be too complicated, I have one hippy friend who took a 3volt motor that spins some copper brushes, to make contacts like a commutator would! He couldn't care less about learning PWM's and took my latter advise, cause that was easier to for him to wrap his head around. So the caps fill up, and boom its dumped on to the bank. Of course there are arcing issues and such but in his case we are only taking 8A, so it's not like 40 or something.. just check the cap voltage and make sure the rpm is such they are given enough time to "fill" to full voltage. The whole process is a "moniter while use thing" - but it works for someone strictly on solar. Of course you can just connect your solar panels straight up, and run the voltage to a high point BUT - at some point, there become a battle between battery and array, and it may not go as high. Plus, you may heat up the bank if you have TOO much incoming energy. You can take your voltage up, without running the genset, this way, to 15+ volts, if the bank is already fully charged, and the sun is rockin. It was Mag who, after a conversation, kind of lead me in this direction.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!

Edited by - kcarring on November 27 2012 04:32:12
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - November 27 2012 :  10:50:34  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi KC

I feel any at rest voltage in a battery below 12.8 could use help. LOL like you when you have over 100 batteries to look after you have to be piratical. So I think work on any battery that is under 12.4 and under 12.2 needs a TSO for a couple of charges. I run all my banks down to 12.0 when there is no sun and that is it. if you run below that point I feel you are sulfating the battery to much. As you and I are in cold country you have to take the temp of the battery into the mix but I still go with the 12.0 . And any time you put a woman in charge of POWER no mater what type at one time or another you will have lead puddle on the floor.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
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