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Advanced Member

1455 Posts

Posted - January 02 2012 :  08:08:21  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I'm learning about 'surface voltage', a term that was mentioned to me about recording my results.

What I've done is taken matching batteries, I know are good (my cordless drill batteries) and testing with these now.

What I see is once I've brought a battery up to charge and switch run and charge batteries, the run battery drops fast.
I mean, in less than a minute!
Drops so low, the rotor stops...

Give them 4 hours of rest, the voltage is back and I show gain.

If I take that same battery (that failed so quickly) and charge it in the 'supplied' charger, it holds it charge and will run for hours.
Telling me the battery is good.

I've been taking most of my readings the following morning to insure they rested fully and re-running the test.
Doesn't seem to change the result I'm getting.

Just to confuse me even more, one of my batteries loves being re-charged this way... and holds...


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Mountain View

Senior Member

857 Posts

Posted - January 02 2012 :  09:52:49  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi OD and welcome.

Conventional chargers use a Positive charge while pulse chargers use a negative one.
I found that draining out the pos charge completely and charging on a pulse charger will begin to show results.
You cannot go between Conventional and pulse charges (mistake I made early on).
A cycle of charge and discharge will give you results, but it may take time.
My batteries had about 50 charges before I saw good results.
I would have seen them quicker if I had not used conventional charges during the first few months.
Conditioning of the batteries is needed to see good results.
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Advanced Member

1455 Posts

Posted - January 02 2012 :  10:22:16  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Being the novice I am, I'll take it on the statement that batteries 'do' care about which direction the charge comes from.
Never thought that to matter.
I always assumed that a charge was just that, a charge... regardless of direction..

This would be the reason I see increase in charge voltage, but will not hold that charge.

I'll dedicate 2 of my batteries to just this and condition them with the pulse charger.

Does raise the question if the reverse is true...
Once conditioned on a pulse charger, it wouldn't take a good charge from the conventional?
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Senior Member

681 Posts

Posted - January 02 2012 :  12:33:38  Show Profile  Visit Magneticitist's Homepage Send Magneticitist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sla's and Ni'cds are tricky beasts..

ive had sla's that just wanted to act totally IFFY.. seem half dead at times and strong at others.. i had one that simply did not want to charge at all.. then i ended up load testing it with a bulb, and for some reason the longer i left the bulb on, over time the brighter it would get... it would reach points during its loading where the voltage would just JUMP suddenly and stay there.. that battery never ended up getting saved..

ive had drill batts that would charge all the way up, but there was no current behind them and wouldnt drive a drill for squat, and this was the case for every batt in the series.. no visible reason for why as they all looked brand new.

the effect u are talking about is something i notice on small lithium/metal hydride/nicd batteries all the time..
the charge batt will achieve a nominal voltage, or higher, but its REALLY not fully charged.. it just looks like it lol.. load it down and it drops faster than a brick. let it maintain charge at the same nominal voltage for a much longer time, and it seems to hold the current better. that is to say two identical batteries sitting at identical voltages do not necessarily contain the same amount of current.

when it comes to the direction of the energy thats something im still debating. i cant argue that its "negative" energy but its rectified so either way i see it as being properly polarized to the battery. its not like u could swap the poles on the battery and it would still take the charge, it has to be polarized.

far as conditioning, i can say i do see that.. i mean the more i charge batteries above their rating seems like its easier to do that over time.. but all of these batteries are still able to charge conventionally for me.. i used to have all the guys i work with give me their dead drill batts and id pulse charge them overnight and give them back the next day. they were all able to recharge these batteries again with the chargers they came with. sometimes the batts couldn't be saved and there was just nothing i could do about it though.

[on the gravy train with biscuit wheels]

Edited by - Magneticitist on January 02 2012 12:39:50
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Advanced Member

1455 Posts

Posted - January 02 2012 :  13:30:39  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the responses!

I've always found it hard to understand how voltage can rise without the amperage, thus not holding the current (wattage).

I was thinking that it needed time as they settle into a voltage for the amps to catch-up (very confusing thought for me..).
If I'm reading you correct, that's one reason for the results I'm getting.

My habit has been to shut-down once I reach that settling point.
I'll go longer now and see if I get any change.

I'm pleased to see you're debating the 'direction' and battery response to this.
It dis-appointed me greatly to think I couldn't swap between conventional (if you consider solar to be that) and a pulse source.

My goal has always been to supplement my solar with the best circuit/system I can build.

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