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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member


USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 05 2016 :  17:17:31  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm looking for some help here.

We've all seen these as they came out
You must be logged in to see this link. tie invertors

But you have to cut the leads and connect.
Okay, but why not just plug in?

Now we have these
You must be logged in to see this link. tie invertors

So we can now plug in, but they don't have that 'Island protection' built in or actually state it..

Anyone using either?
Opinions on either?

I'm liking the second one, but..
I really want to see the protection!
I kinda like our LineGuys and need to know for sure.

I will probably run it through my Manual transfer switch, but unless I'm home.. Well, you get the picture.. it won't happen..

Always open to other ideas!



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 05 2016 :  17:35:42  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

The island must be stated as such and I wouldn't buy one with out it. That is what you want and match it to one panel. The plug and play is it has the protection built in and you just plug it into your wall socket and forget it. My 250 watt cuts down about 15 to $20 a month, at that rate it pays for its self in a short time and NO ELECTRICATION necessary. Also no batteries either. LOL just use the power company instead of them using you.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 05 2016 :  17:52:12  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Doug!

I have found this one I like and states it.
You must be logged in to see this link.

This one would match to both and pairing up is not a bad deal (already there).



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 05 2016 :  18:05:10  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It is always better to be safe and have it in writing. Peace of mind.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 06 2016 :  08:35:57  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

The island must be stated as such and I wouldn't buy one with out it. That is what you want and match it to one panel. The plug and play is it has the protection built in and you just plug it into your wall socket and forget it. My 250 watt cuts down about 15 to $20 a month, at that rate it pays for its self in a short time and NO ELECTRICIAN necessary. Also no batteries either. LOL just use the power company instead of them using you.



I confused when you say no batteries needed do you mean you plug it into the wall for the input and return it to the wall for output? is this an inverter for what, do you have a link to this for purchase
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 06 2016 :  09:53:41  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Sorry for the miss understanding but yes from the solar panel to the GTI and then a cord to the 120 wall outlet and your charging your house SO TO SPEEK. LOL The no batteries is for my reference my 3 banks.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 06 2016 :  15:04:13  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[/quote]
I confused when you say no batteries needed do you mean you plug it into the wall for the input and return it to the wall for output? is this an inverter for what, do you have a link to this for purchase

[/quote]

Comes off the solar panel into the GTI and outputs to the house. Placing the wattage gained into the grid.

When these came out, I almost bought one, yet really wanted to wait it out and see where they go in technology.
Also wanted to hear from some folks that have them and what they think about them now.

The last one I posted a link to is the one I will probably buy.
Cleaner Plug-n-Play and actually states 'Island protection'.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  08:53:24  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah I get all that now I had thought you found one that would produce more than you put into it like plug in wall for input and plug back into wall with greater out put lol or something like that
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  09:46:57  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
when they say they are stackable do you have to stack with same make of inverter or can they be linked with any other make so long as both are stackable?
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  11:36:42  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The one I'm looking at is made to mount on the back of the panel. For cost efficiency, I'm looking at wiring in pairs and mounting inside. So not truly 'stacked'.

For what they sell them for now, I don't see cost reasons to stack them.

Matching output is what I'll be watching.

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  11:45:17  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am looking around ebay for them and see affordable well affordable to me at least the ones want are not affordable but the stackables are
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  15:22:00  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You have to crall before you walk

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  17:53:23  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheWeldShop

I am looking around ebay for them and see affordable well affordable to me at least the ones want are not affordable but the stackables are



How to explain 'stackable' better.. Hmm..
As I see them, as I'm doing this, I'll try.

I have 2 130w panels as the start of my system.
So for 2hrs out of the day these panels may produce 'over 260w'.
On average, well far below that.
So to 'oversize' means the inverter is idling. So it's not really doing it's job.

So the 230w I'm looking at seems about right to me.
Yes, I'll lose some at peak, but gain during the balance.
Then comes degradation of the panels over time, again under sizing a bit seems right.

As I buy more panels, as is the intention, I will pair the next two the same way. A separate inverter.
This, to me, is not 'stacking'.

If I was to buy the second pair, plug them in to the first pair and push that amperage forward, then I'd need to add a second inverter behind the first and 'stack' the inverters.
The one I have, wired into the second to cover the amperage.

This, to me, just doesn't make sense...
You lose so much running through the first, to enter the second..

Why waste the in efficiency of the first to power the second.

It's simple enough to pair and seems cost efficient to do so.
Tripling? I haven't seen the connector, but it makes sense to me if it's easy enough to do.

I hope that may have explained what I see better.

Always open to more opinions.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  19:07:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

To me your going about it the correct way. If you have a problem you don't loose so much at one time.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  20:23:09  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
maybe that is what they are calling stackable though they say to run them in parallel to increase output but your way sounds like it would work much better I agree just trying to wrap my head around it and work out how best to run it when I get there
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  20:38:44  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My question was are they interchangable with stacking them
like can I buy this one You must be logged in to see this link.

and buy this one You must be logged in to see this link.
to stack together?
or even if I don't stack them will they work with each other?
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 10 2016 :  21:18:48  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi TWS

I am going to say NO!!! I could not get any info on the first one. The second one looks and sounds good. Just make sure to match the SP to the input voltage on that GTI and you should be good to go. IMHO

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 11 2016 :  07:03:30  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I won the bids for the second link for inverter total cost was $65 for a 250w inverter I think this is a good price what do you think
I am still holding winning bid on the first link for inverter holding at $21.50 there is 9 bidders me included so I am expecting it to start rallying in the last hour of the auction. I wont be bidding post $25 on it will let them out bid me as the shipping and handling is $22
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 11 2016 :  08:17:14  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
$65 is a great bid,now get the pannel to go with it. LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 11 2016 :  17:55:55  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheWeldShop

My question was are they interchangable with stacking them
like can I buy this one You must be logged in to see this link.

and buy this one You must be logged in to see this link.
to stack together?
or even if I don't stack them will they work with each other?



The first one 'I' don't like.
My opinion is it's square wave and it's not going in my house.
I have too many electronics' here I don't wish to harm.

The second I like more.
First it states sine wave.
My electronics' are safe.
Next is just what is coming in from the pole?
You have to be certain what you produce matches are is better.
Really can't lose with sine wave.
Third, it's a real plug n play.
Not cutting wires and adapting it, like you would on the first one.

'Stack' a couple of 130's on that baby and away you go!
Or 'a' 260 and run it!

If what you 'can' do is buy 1K of panels.
Then buy a 1K GTI. Chances are you'd save money over-all.

If, like me, you do it step at a time.
A smaller GTI makes sense and combine (stack) the panels.

It all comes down to: What can you do now and how to cost efficiently.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  06:52:41  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the first one says it is pure sine wave both of them do
Also it has the plug for the wall outlet to simply plug it into it
the on difference between the 2 is size capabilities one is 250 the other is 500 both have quick connects from the panel to the inverter although they are different quick connects in design they both are quick connects and both have the cord for plugging straight into wall and have island protection

Edited by - TheWeldShop on May 12 2016 07:16:22
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  07:26:25  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well looks like I got both them inverters the first link I got for $51 shipping included the second link I got for $65 shipping included
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  07:28:19  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now I need to find panels for them lol
What am I looking at to match up the Wattage, Amps, or both?
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  09:40:58  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Voltage first and then watts to max needed but only close for the cheapest cost

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  09:56:28  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK for the second inverter I will need 22v - 60v and close as possible to 250w for my panel
and the first inverter I will need 11v - 28v and close as possible to 500w for that panel
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  16:17:06  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now for my question...

The 260w GTI that TWS just bought has an LED display to read 'real time' amperage. This what I bought (as a meter) a couple years back to add to my system.

What I'm looking for is something that is cumulative.
Would really like to walk out there and read what I got for the day.

If you know of one, or trip across one, let me know please.
This ones integrated I'm finding so far are on the expensive units..

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on May 12 2016 16:19:51
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  16:31:20  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR
Just a question. Could you put a watt meter on it so it shows the watts for 24 HRS?

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  16:44:21  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bought from these guys before.
You must be logged in to see this link.

Only thing I found with them is they want to sell lots.
Finding a deal on 6 or less can be tough.
Well, and stay in that dollar a watt range...


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 12 2016 :  18:37:37  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
% yrs age they were good but like you say they want you to buy a pallet.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 13 2016 :  16:54:30  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

% yrs age they were good but like you say they want you to buy a pallet.



And if you're going to do that, buy direct and get them for .78 a watt.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 13 2016 :  17:02:24  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR
Just a question. Could you put a watt meter on it so it shows the watts for 24 HRS?



You know of one please!
So far all I'm seeing, at reasonable costs, are 'real time' only.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 13 2016 :  17:05:53  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Next question:

I'm now seeing panels that are meant for GTI's. Not that they come with, but stated 'For Grid Tie'.

The assumption is GT is a 'no-load' situation.

Question: Is it?

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 13 2016 :  17:06:53  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ebay or I got mine at Harbor

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 15 2016 :  10:18:18  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As I was cleaning up the garage I came upon my Kill A Watt Meter.

Believe I just found what I was looking for!
I forgot all about this meter.
And I already have it.

I need to cleanup more often..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 16 2016 :  06:36:59  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ok I have finished my front porch wall and ran new wire with an extra wire for inverter to be plugged in my question is the inverters I are island protected and GTI the wire I ran for them runs to an inside outlet which is switched on the wall when I have the inverter plugged in and panel connected to it if I want to switch off the power supply to the GTI with the island protection to stop using the power from house for that outlet with GTI still work?
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 16 2016 :  14:26:09  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, maybe I'm confused with what you're doing.

First the GTI is wired to an outlet that is live on the grid so that it may return power to the grid.
Really shouldn't be looking to run directly off the GTI.
That the beauty of it. You're limited to running anything from them directly. All the power is back to the grid or limiting what you're drawing from the grid.

Switching the GTI off and on?
Well, not really. You want it always connected.
The GTI is regulated (diode) not to let it draw in reverse.
Also the Island protection is to insure it shuts down when it doesn't read Grid power. This way it doesn't back feed the lines when the folks are out there working on them.
I find this 'very' important, besides it being a Law to have this (or transfer switch).

I'm looking at switching between charging batteries and sending power back to the grid. So I will have a switch, but only to go between the two options.
Don't think you'd ever want those panels to run wild (without some load), well at least for any period of time.

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on May 16 2016 14:32:44
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 16 2016 :  17:39:36  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bought my GTI for the first run.
You must be logged in to see this link.

I have connectors, so I don't have to cut the wires from the panel.
I will be able to 'pair' the panels to run through it.
Good so far.

For shifting between the GTI and battery I figure to leave the shut-off switch on what I have, so I can kill power to the batteries and just turn on the GTI.

Now to finally run the wire to the garage!
Now I have a reason!

Since where I wish to have the panel in the garage and where the panel is in the house.
I figure on running 10gauge.
Might as well be ready for improvement on the panels, and I hate loss.

I'm also looking at wiring it into the 'transfer switch'.
I know it's Island protected, but...
I really like those folks that work the lines and being a little extra cautious doesn't hurt (especially them).



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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TheWeldShop
Junior Member



USA
84 Posts

Posted - May 16 2016 :  20:28:56  Show Profile Send TheWeldShop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
so the inverter and panel will not work for powering up a window AC Unit
Well it is not a window unit actually its more like a mobile unit the kind with wheels and a vent duct that runs out of a window but same deal as window unit.
So I was figuring that the inverter would run that one unit with matching panels.
I get what you mean with the feeding back to grid.
So I guess the inverters wont run if I switch the grid off from them might have to buy another one for non grid tied and have it run the AC and still use the GTI's to feed back to grid
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 17 2016 :  10:06:02  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes the GTI can run an appliance.
The question is why?

If the appliance takes 500watts to run, then you could only turn on the switch when the panels are producing enough.
Then shut it back down again once below.
Now think about during height of production (that 3-4hrs a day).
You could produce much more than the 500watts you're using.
That over-production goes no where.
The point of production to reach the 500watts, went no where..

Try not to think of the GTI like an inverter from a battery.
The GTI will put any & all production back into the grid, no waste.

What you're trying to do is slow down your Grid Meter.
It's stated as Meter Reversing, but for most of us it will be slowing it down.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 17 2016 :  16:06:51  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe using the term 'Back to the Grid' is misleading on my part.

Think of the GTI as putting wattage back to your Circuit Breaker panel. Unless you 'over-produce' it does go back on the Grid.

All of us have appliances that run all day.
Your Frig, Freezer, stovetop, alarm clocks, etc...
Look around your place and see what is always running.

Once that GTI turns on, and this is key as to when, every watt produced from those panels is absorbed by those appliances, before it draws from the Grid.

So thinking of running a appliance directly, no, you'll waste too much wattage.
Think more of how much you want to reduce your use 'from' the Grid.

Properly setup, you'll do better plugging in that AC unit to the wall plug and feeding the Panel with the GTI.

My plan is to setup a single plug at the panel or wire direct into, on a separate breaker.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 18 2016 :  11:01:29  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very good ODR

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 18 2016 :  17:02:49  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bought my first GTI.
You must be logged in to see this link.

Very close to what I hoped for and the dollar was about right.

I really wanted a 'true' plug & play so I don't have to cut and wire it. But for the dollar difference, I'll wire an MC 4 connector to it.

Since I can't find my MC 4 connectors (I really need this cleanup I'm doing..) I bought another batch.
Okay, once I find them, I'll have some to expand with.. LOL

What I did come across that I really liked was this.
You must be logged in to see this link.

Probably can get them cheaper if I search around a bit, but has the MC 4 connection, inline protection and can protect each panel separately.
Me like! I bought two.

Seems like over-kill for protection since the GTI is fuse protected.

What do you think?
Need them?




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - May 19 2016 :  16:49:38  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

That is up to you as how neat you need it, distance and so on.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - May 21 2016 :  16:13:44  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just another example for the books.

I have the GTI up and running.
Amp meter inline.

I have the 260w of panels inline now.

Today is overcast with rain on it's way.
75 outside and humid, but not bad.
Clouds are getting darker.
Ya, it's a comin'

Panels are reading 14.5 to 15.2v
Plenty of voltage.
Amp meter is reading 1 to 2 amps

You can have plenty of voltage, but if you are not producing the amperage, you won't have an appliance running.

What do I have currently?
Let's sat 15v and let's say 1.5a
Voltage X Amperage = Wattage
22.5 watts

Won't run an appliance, but it's feeding back and off-setting my draw.

Every ounce (watt or portion there of), well short of the 100ma the unit takes, is going back to off-set.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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