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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member


USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 23 2016 :  11:17:07  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd really like this to be 'Our' attempt!

I will post a drawing of the concept, but it basically an improved version of the post Tinman did a while back on a 'self-runner'.

My experiments trying to understand Roney's experiment and moving forward from it, has lead me to understand Bismuth quite a bit.
It's a very interesting material with qualities that make this experiment plausible.

I'll clean up the drawing some when I get home today and post it.

This should get interesting.
Well, maybe just for me... LOL!

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 23 2016 :  16:59:05  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let's begin.
The platform for this 'Proof of Concept' is an old Hard Drive.
Precision disc and bearing capable of speeds far beyond what hope to see.

The magnets are 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/2 inch.
True end to end polarity, not face to face.
This insures the facing ends are either North or South without leakage.

The Shielding product is Bismuth.
I have found this to be a very easy item to work with and is non-toxic.

Terms used for the items.
Here's the first place I want direction.
I call the magnet off the wheel the Stator.
I call the magnets on the wheel the Drive magnets.
Please correct in this terms so there is no confusion as this proceeds.

Goal.
Very simple, get it to spin without an electrical or mechanical action.
For it to have some torque. Without which, all we have is yet another desktop spiny thing.. And there's plenty of those already out there.

Here comes the first design I will do.



In this picture you see two differently shielded Stators.
The upper one Stator 1 is what I hope will work. Due it's closer and will have the most power.
The second may be required to lessen the initial reaction and reduce the action.

The angle of the Drive magnets I believe is very important.
Even with the Bismuth the point of stall (cog) will occur, yet quite reduced.

I have positioned the picture as I see the possible stall.
Purposely because this is the point of it working or not.

To what extent the angle should be??
How close can the magnets be??

My hope is that others become involved in this journey.
I see much more to learn and possibilities.

I will be re-casting my Bismuth this weekend and taking this into the next step.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 23 2016 :  17:05:22  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should also say, the position angle of the Drive magnets between Stator 1 and 2 are different as I'm deciding the angle and looking at the forces involved.
I can see immediately Stator 1 needs a greater leading edge and the magnet needs a steeper angle.

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 24 2016 :  15:36:32  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't see your comment...


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'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 24 2016 :  16:41:26  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Step one: Well at least mine..

Set a base line with the magnets to test the capability of the material. In my case Bismuth is my primary.

So I simply place a ruler on the table with a magnet set at 0 and began to slide it forward till an action happened. Each attempt I did 3 times, then changed polarity to check that.

N/N or N/S 1 3/8" before I saw any action.

Next was to put a piece of Bismuth 1/4" thick in front of the stationary magnet and do the test again.
Keeping the magnet at 0

N/N or N/S 1 1/8"

Here's where it became interesting.
I went for my 1/2" piece.
Again magnet at 0

N/N or N/S 1 1/2"
This I found interesting.

I then decided to try it again, but this time hold the bismuth at 0, which means the magnet is being moved back.

This should make the magnet react at 7/8" with the 1/4" Bismuth.
It did. That worked out!

Now the 1/2"
If correct it should react at 1" from the earlier test.
Which is just what it did!

First conclusion, Bigger is not always better.

Next will be to cast a 1/8" & a 3/8"
Let's see the point of greatest return...

Question to be answered: How thick should the Bismuth be?






Old in age, not in mind, so
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Edited by - olddawgsrule on March 24 2016 16:44:17
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olddawgsrule
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USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 24 2016 :  16:57:29  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm re-posting this site on this thread for I feel it applies to the effort.
If you find one better or has a list of man-made products, please add it here.

You must be logged in to see this link.



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49er
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USA
4426 Posts

Posted - March 25 2016 :  09:50:00  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
HI ODR

This guy is a bit funny but you night get something from him, I am still scratching my head.

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 25 2016 :  15:24:35  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This I liked better.
You must be logged in to see this link.

Though this is a two wheel system, it has merit in how it can work.
I do see the mechanicals of this taking too much away and the plain fact of again mechanicals..

Yet if you see what he has here and envision this as a single wheel and his 'J' cancelation and magnets angled, then you can see what I'm thinking and drawing.

I'm not fully understanding his statement of the equal on all parts cancelation material..
I think he's saying 'uniform'..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 25 2016 :  16:32:53  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wish I could show you this in motion, but You'd have to download the program Sketchup (free) and tell you how.
You must be logged in to see this link.
There if you decide to give it a try.



If Jesse is correct, which I can see how, add Bismuth as the material and I'm seeing this as even more plausible.

Entry before the shielding/cancelation material should create a slight draw, as it comes into play, cancelation occurs, as it passes, the repel we're looking for.

Jesse speaks of using a magnetic material, yet I'm finding on the bench there's stil a bit of draw to the material.
This is where I see Bismuth, a diamagnetic, as a better material.

Jesse may have given us a hint of positioning of the shielding/cancelation material.

Thank you Doug!
I did find something interesting in the video!




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on March 26 2016 08:46:35
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 25 2016 :  16:35:29  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I'm posting too big a picture because the text afterwards didn't come through..


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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 25 2016 :  16:45:58  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What I saw in the video's is what Jesse calls his cancelation material.
He speaks of it as equal dimensions, but I believe he means uniform.

With a couple of benchtop experiments, I still see a draw occurring when using a magnetic material.
This is where I see a material like Bismuth, a diamagnetic, as being a possible solution.

As the magnet in the drawing comes into play N/S is open to reaction, draw even if very light.
As it comes closer, the Bismuth (shield or cancelation) comes into play.
As it exists, the action we're looking for.
Repel.

As a magnetic material, and it is just about to go into full repel, I see an imbalance and I see a draw occurring.
As Bismuth, that spot doesn't exist.
I like the diamagnetic quality of Bismuth.

What I have learned from Jesse's video's is possibly the positioning of the Bismuth.
He may have given us some very important information on a step I hadn't reached yet.

Thank you Doug for sharing the link!
I did get something from it!



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 26 2016 :  18:01:59  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finally, Photo Bucket caught up!



I need to file these down, but you get were I'm at.
3 to the left are face down as they should be.
3 to the right I flipped over so you can see where the magnets fit in.

I'm on about a 30 degree angle, give or take..
Finding this on the bench to be close for what I hope to see.

Covering the top, well that happened, yet I do see the field as 3 dimension and covering the bottom as well may happen.

We'll see what tomorrow brings..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 26 2016 :  18:07:11  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh.. Sorry.. I moved on to a different platform.
I'm now using one of the old Portable DVD players I have around here.
Have a feeling I'm going to change this a few times before I'm done and CD's are cheap.
The Velcro just isn't doing the trick and epoxy kills the disc..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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The_Architect
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USA
327 Posts

Posted - March 26 2016 :  18:29:16  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
why did you drop the hard drive platter again?


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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 27 2016 :  10:23:16  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you saw the mess I made of the first CD, you'd be asking, LOL!

I know the arrangement is going to change, well, several times before I'm done.
And I'd rather no screw up the hard drive platter in the process.

I'm also liking this platform!

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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The_Architect
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USA
327 Posts

Posted - March 27 2016 :  12:02:08  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
where are you? I have a box full of hard drive platters so I can spare a few your way lol

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 27 2016 :  12:57:02  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey thanks!
I have 4 of them before I even break down the other 2 CPU's..
So I'm good.
I have also have 5 of these Portable DVD players 'round here..

Ya, I may a problem with throwing things away.




Old in age, not in mind, so
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 27 2016 :  13:37:17  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
3 CD disc's later, dozen and a half different arrangements..

First lesson learned:
Don't use epoxy or that real good hot glue you have ODR..
Use the cheap stuff, it's easier to clean up..

To date, I can jump a few magnets, yet slowing down so no re-entry possible. Meaning no loop will happen.

Best sequence was reverting back a few years to an old idea of changing polarity on the disc. I.E. N,S,S,N,S,S with N being the Stator Magnet.
Interesting enough it was picking up speed and broke through.
Would not loop.
Well first the disc was not full, yet speed looked good.

Then it dawned on me what the issue was when I did this before.
And yes, this is the case again..
The second N magnet is weaker than the first one allowing it to pass.

Lesson learned: I went to fast to the test module before testing my magnets.

I do not own a gauss meter. Probably should make one, but thought of this and you tell me what you think.

I going to cast a couple of holders for the magnets and put them on my digital gram scale.
If one is on the scale and the other placed on a stand above (stationary distance), I should be able to read the force applied (matching polarity).
This should give me a reasonable indication of matching magnets.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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The_Architect
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USA
327 Posts

Posted - March 27 2016 :  18:43:10  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
you planning on measuring pull force? not entirely the same thing, honestly but if everything else is the same on these units it should work for your purposes.

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 29 2016 :  17:08:11  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Architect

you planning on measuring pull force? not entirely the same thing, honestly but if everything else is the same on these units it should work for your purposes.



Okay, I'll bite..
The intent is to measure push, seems I can do that easier.
Are you indicating there could be a difference?

My assumption is; If the push is equal, then so should be the attract.
I also assume Newton's Law falls into effect here.
The push should be equal to the attract.

Now this leads to a question.

Can you store magnets so that 'they' will equal out?
I have always store my magnets (of equal types and believed strengths) connected.
Assuming they will balance out.

True, False, better way?

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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Kudzu
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USA
1619 Posts

Posted - March 29 2016 :  21:44:00  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Old Dawg ,
That bismuth stuff cast easy ?
Can you drill it easy ?
Just thinking if your rotor was thick enough to drill oversized holes on the angle you require . Then cast the bismuth in the hole and drill out for a round neo cylinder mag into the bismuth cast .
Would that make it easy to test your setup ?
If the bismuth was drilled over a catch container the shavings saved for recast ?
Just a thought .

=========================================
I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
=========================================
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin
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The_Architect
Average Member



USA
327 Posts

Posted - March 30 2016 :  05:55:21  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by olddawgsrule
Okay, I'll bite..
The intent is to measure push, seems I can do that easier.
Are you indicating there could be a difference?



from what I understand there is a difference due to size, larger magnets could have more pull force with out having the same magnetic density, which from what I am gathering (though I could be wrong) is that the higher the magnetic density the faster the collapse of the field, resulting in a shorter but stronger (more dense) field close to the magnet vs a weaker close to the magnet but further reach of a decent amount of the magnetic field (push or pull)





quote:
Originally posted by Kudzu

Hey Old Dawg ,
That bismuth stuff cast easy ?
Can you drill it easy ?
Just thinking if your rotor was thick enough to drill oversized holes on the angle you require . Then cast the bismuth in the hole and drill out for a round neo cylinder mag into the bismuth cast .
Would that make it easy to test your setup ?
If the bismuth was drilled over a catch container the shavings saved for recast ?
Just a thought .

=========================================
I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
=========================================
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin



it actually does drill easily though he has square shapes already.


Good progress reports, can not wait to see more, and as always skype is open for those that want to contact me to talk about things. I am working on a few ideas using the bismuth and maybe the other graphite compound I have here provided I can find it lol. may have to try and get another bottle of the stuff though if I can't, the other stuff I need materials and tools for would make all this moot but one step at a time :)

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Edited by - The_Architect on March 30 2016 13:26:07
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 30 2016 :  07:42:47  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It casts very easy! Melt temp is around 220F, so very easy to reach stovetop.
All shavings, scrapes or mis-casts are easily re-melted and as you remove any 'slag' it just becomes purer (more pure?).

Drilling I haven't tried, but casting around the magnets is simple.
Just place the magnet in the mold.
Bismuth really doesn't stick to anything I've been working with so far.
With slight effort, I can separate it from everything.

I cast my first base to test the magnets and removed the magnet from the cast. Now I can switch magnets.

I do like working with the Bismuth. Low melt temp, non-toxic material and short of removing slag, no loss of material during a re-cast.



Old in age, not in mind, so
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olddawgsrule
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USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 30 2016 :  07:53:05  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now, my issue is not finding the correct positioning of the magnets nor the Bismuth.

The Bismuth certainly changes the magnet field. What I believe I'm seeing is, how do I say it, leakage (?) from above or below the magnet.

I'm stepping back to complete the magnet strength test and to work with out the Bismuth to find best positioning.
Then I'll return to casting to see what effect 'I' can achieve.

My thoughts are to enclose the magnet on all 5 sides allowing only the 'action' face exposed. Really would like to see it only required on the Stator but tests will tell.


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olddawgsrule
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USA
1434 Posts

Posted - March 30 2016 :  17:53:57  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Magnet test complete!

I wasn't certain what I'd see, so I set the scale to grams.
Well, that was enough!

9 of my twelve magnets are with in a gram of each other.
The other 3, well, those guys are definitely weaker..
Just over half the value...

First step in checking complete.
Next is to go to milligram's.

Lesson learned..
Test the magnets! Know what you're working with!


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The_Architect
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USA
327 Posts

Posted - March 31 2016 :  01:39:20  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
question, did you cast bismuth around the ones that are weaker? or did they just come that way from where you bought them?

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olddawgsrule
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  06:54:04  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can say all but 4 have been cast in bismuth in varying amounts.

Out of the 8 that have been cast, 4-5 have been re-cast several times.

Out of the 4-5, I'll say 2-3 have been within that casting for 2-3 days.

Great question Arch!
If the Bismuth is doing this to the magnets, that quick, this could be an issue.

To the second part, I did not test them when I first received them.
I will from this point forward!

I will cast 2 and give it a test.
I'll go 2 days on 1 and 3 days on the other, since 3 is the most I've gone so far.

I'll report back on this in a few days.
This will be interesting..

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The_Architect
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  10:27:24  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
my reason for asking was that maybe the heat of the process might be causing them to hit demagnetize? just a thought.

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The_Architect
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  10:30:00  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah from looking it appears that the melting point is very close to the curie temp for neo magnets, so if you over heated it to get it to flow well, raising up over 300 degrees it might have damaged your magnets.

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olddawgsrule
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  16:02:38  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you again Arch!

To be honest, I was over looking that point.
Well, it looks like I have 3 to use with the molds now.

I have been low heat melting, taking care not to go too high, but may have.

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49er
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  16:28:10  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

A dumb question, could you make a magnet mold so you can slide the magnet in or out to change the configuration? Then you could use tape to hold it in and you could make many that way. Just a thought

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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olddawgsrule
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  17:01:26  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not at all a dumb question!

The beauty of Bismuth is it hasn't stuck to anything I've worked with!
Well not completely.. A little pry here and there and out comes the magnet or the mold from the tin I'm forming with.

Slipping the magnets in and out of a mold, depending on if encased, like 5 sides, is actually pretty easy.
I've had a few just blow out of the molds and hot-glued them in, my 2 sided or 3 sided.

My base cast for testing the magnets is as you ask.
A simple casting that I can slip my control magnet in and out of.
The two test pieces I just did are the same way.

No, not at all a dumb question..
Something I should have explained better as to how easy Bismuth is to work with.



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olddawgsrule
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  17:08:21  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I cast the two test pieces to see if there's effect on the magnets from the Bismuth or if as Arch suggests, I may have poured too hot.

I'm hoping Arch is correct and I screwed up!

After the casting I re-tested the magnets against my control magnet.
They read the same.

Maybe after what Arch said, Maybe I was paying 'more' attention..
Ya, no doubt I was..

Couple of days we'll know if I burnt them or the Bismuth took over.

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olddawgsrule
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Posted - March 31 2016 :  17:43:46  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My mind is racing with ideas and directions.
I have to learn to slow down and take it step at a time.

My belief has always been to create an imbalance.
This is where I hope Bismuth comes in.
Tests show it's plausible, but how..

My thoughts go towards the drive magnets being thinner (1/8 thick x 1/4 high x 1/2 long) and still true N/S along the 1/2".
The Stator is still questioned on shielding, Yet being the 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/2 long.
I believe the Stator magnet is what is going to give it the Torque we're looking for.

I can not just buy what I'm looking for.. Well, at least from the guy I've come to trust.
Thinking I may just cut what I have...

Anyone cut magnets before?
Something I should be aware of?
Besides Safety glasses...

It's not going to happen tomorrow.
I've learned to slow down a bit.



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49er
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USA
4426 Posts

Posted - March 31 2016 :  18:09:03  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

This guy is the best of what I watched and may give you another idea for your setup. LOL bring corn and a note pad. Enjoy

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
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The_Architect
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Posted - April 01 2016 :  13:13:05  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks for that video and the guy himself, did not know he was a friend of Kultus lol, the idea of the popping the foil on the magnet is genius :), been looking at magnetic field re-orientation using a laser, as an idea (so good strong permanent magnets could be used or a coil or two attached to a cylinder say, made of steel, over the magnet and laser poking out of the cylinder to heat and prep the magnet to be magnetized :), they dont talk about how they are doing it but polymagnets is doing something similar to that to magnetize pixels of area (maxels) in magnets, but I am thinking we could do better, maybe even place a spring loaded section around the point that is aluminum pressing down on the magnet so as to act as a heat sink to keep the heat from wandering side to side so it could really be pumped to deepen the energy into the magnet and get deeper wells of re-magnetized area, with out having to widen the magnetic area, :)

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olddawgsrule
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Posted - April 02 2016 :  14:48:12  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have to say I'm not pleased with the results of the test of wrapping the magnets in Bismuth.

I've lost very close to 40% of the energy...

It seems Bismuth does not shield, it absorbs and it seems to de-magnetize.

I've removed the test magnets and will retest tomorrow.

I'm looking for recovery, yet I doubt it's there..





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olddawgsrule
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Posted - April 02 2016 :  17:59:41  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So If I'm correct about Bismuth.. and it absorbs (not just repels).. The question becomes what material to use.

Paramagnetic material, as I understand has no effect.
Like aluminum..

It's time once again to listen to Rono.. When shall I learn..
I need to look into Cobalt(II) Oxide

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49er
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Posted - April 02 2016 :  19:25:11  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Cobalt ll is very bad stuff. It is not worth it.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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olddawgsrule
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Posted - April 03 2016 :  07:06:10  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So I saw when I looked it up...

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49er
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Posted - April 03 2016 :  09:07:13  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well back to the search

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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The_Architect
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Posted - April 03 2016 :  14:58:23  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
still thinking it is the heat that caused the issue. unless you are just measuring it before and after being in the bismuth (no heating) to see if it is weakening the magnet permanently.

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olddawgsrule
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Posted - April 04 2016 :  07:22:17  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Architect

still thinking it is the heat that caused the issue. unless you are just measuring it before and after being in the bismuth (no heating) to see if it is weakening the magnet permanently.


I took much care this time, yet still cast the magnets in the mold.
Once cooled down, remove the magnets from the mold and re-tested.
No reduction in strength.
Place them back in the mold and on the shelf, away from anything that might attract them (including themselves).

Basically, the mold encased all 4 sides, leaving the top and bottom open.
Reduction was small, but present after 1 day.
Since my thought was to encase the top & bottom at some point, I placed another 1/4" thick piece over the top.

That's when the reduction took off!

Maybe it's comes to not being in contact with the magnet.
I need to re-think spacing/positioning.
Also re-test with Bismuth not in contact.



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49er
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Posted - April 04 2016 :  09:47:28  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Now go back and watch for different markers in the original video. Bolt, screw or plate under the table and maybe painted pieces.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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49er
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Posted - April 04 2016 :  10:10:24  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Look at this video and the close your eyes and dream.

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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49er
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Posted - April 05 2016 :  09:32:13  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

This one is questionable but may have ideas you can use.

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
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49er
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Posted - April 05 2016 :  09:53:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Again I have for you may be something you can glean something you can use.

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
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1434 Posts

Posted - April 05 2016 :  17:21:19  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Again, thank you Doug!
I always get something out of what you send me.

The first guy, well he is what he is and it's a bit strange.

For that second Guy, well you know what we think of him!
That was in fun..
I aspire to come close to how TinMan does his bench tests and have learn so much from him.

I don't see mono-pole as the answer.
As you showed in the other video, is Newton's Law.
What Newton states we find as true with opposite and equal reactions.
What we hope here is to use that reaction in the wheel.
Like the video shows with differences when weighting the opposite item, we hope to use the wheel as the lighter and gain from that force.

I'm using a true end to end polarity magnet purposely.
Thus, in my belief, removing the need for such.

I do believe some sort of shielding (if possible) is required.

Thus continues the experiment.




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olddawgsrule
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Posted - April 05 2016 :  17:28:49  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now, with that said, you lead me into another guy with an interesting idea.
Don't know him, highly skeptical, yet interesting.
Do not like when people use words like: Holy Grail!

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I put no statement but interesting on this.
Well, short of I may give it go.. (What the heck.. I've done dumber stuff.. Like Golf and Ice Fishing.. Worst is I still do..)

The Iron plate I'd like to know what I have around here I could pull it from.
Thoughts?


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Edited by - olddawgsrule on April 05 2016 17:30:00
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The_Architect
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Posted - April 07 2016 :  13:49:46  Show Profile  Visit The_Architect's Homepage Send The_Architect a Private Message  Reply with Quote
saw that video ages ago, thing that bothers me is that it has large gap between the magnets caused by how loosely the layers are wrapped, if you had shim stock that is only .002 thick and aluminum foil how well would it work, and how close could you get is my question lol.

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olddawgsrule
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Posted - April 07 2016 :  17:23:54  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I did as well, but was reminded of it while researching.

Couple of things stuck out at me:

First is the Iron is zinc coated.
Zinc being a diamagnetic (Zinc -2.2110 to the -9)
Iron, well what do you term it? (not available in my chart..)
An element that can be magnetized, but not magnet from origin.
Interesting in just that.

Secondly was the comment of spacing between the plates.

I'd really like to see the magnetic permeability of Iron.
If you know it, please pass it on.
My feeling is, it absorbs the field, thus weakening the magnet.
Especially if correct in absorbing in order to magnetize and not from origin.

My feeling is also that 'all' diamagnetic materials absorb vs deflecting.
If I find this true, then it may indeed require mechanical intervention.






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