International Alternative Energy Center
International Alternative Energy Center
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?




 All Forums
 Forums
 Circuits and Diagrams
 Sampu Express Setout
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Poppy
Average Member


USA
418 Posts

Posted - December 24 2011 :  16:20:14  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Everyone...

For those interested here is the diagram for the Sampu Express.



Good Experimenting...
Poppy

Edited by - Magneticitist on January 15 2012 18:09:26

Google AdSense

USA
Mountain View


iaec
Forum Admin



1033 Posts

Posted - December 24 2011 :  16:33:10  Show Profile Send iaec a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Poppy, thanks for posting your Sampu Express circuit... :)

TimberJack

***Possibilities Within The Impossible***

You must be logged in to see this link.
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - December 25 2011 :  09:43:27  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Timberjack...

For anyone trying this build it is an absolute must that the charge battery be connected first. I fried a half dozen transistors before I figured out the remedy.

~~~Life's greatest FAILURE is not learning from our MISTAKES!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

msmjr
Average Member



USA
444 Posts

Posted - December 25 2011 :  14:48:45  Show Profile Send msmjr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
LOL Poppy
Lost a whole breadboard once. A ball of molten plastic and it happens fast!

He is wise who gains wisdom from another's mishaps.
—Plutius Syrus
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 01 2012 :  10:59:16  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First off; Thanks Poppy for sending me over here!
Second; Thank you for responding to me from YouTube (seemed to be the way to reach you, before now)

I have a feeling my issue is the connection sequence you mentioned here and in the email.

I've cut the Sampu down to 5 transistors until I figured out what was happening..
Was too much to dis-connect and test as a 10T...

Question for you;
You call your 2T "a beast", yet I see the Sampu as a 'monster' circuit!
Which have 'you' had the best results with?

Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 02 2012 :  20:06:48  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi olddawgsrule...

Happy to see you here!

As to your question about the Sampu vs. the 2 transistor motor. The 2 transistor motor draws 1/10 or less as much current as the Sampu with a lot of charging power. The Sampu draws about 2amps but will charge an automobile battery to over 13 volts in just a few minutes. So...they both have a place in my charging arsenal. For higher amp fast charging I use the Sampu. For more delicate charging I use the 2 transistor motor. I also have an SSG Fan and a single transistor SSG that I use to charge rechargable AA, AAA and 9 volt batteries so as not to over heat them and wear them out to quickly. By the way I connected the SSG fan to a 12 volt 500ma power supply and charged a 12 volt battery to over 13 volts in just over 7 days. Not very fast but I proved it could be done (see my video on youtube).

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 03 2012 :  12:30:53  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since the Holiday guests have all gone home, I now have time to play again.

I seem to have blown 3 more transistors yesterday...
Did the connection sequence backwards...

Now that this is 'a known', I'm heading back into the shop to hook-up all 10T's again.

I'm having issues with my coils, something I need to work on, but my 'new' 6"SSG fan rebuild is running great!
It especially likes the Sampu!
Really can't wait to see how it reacts to all 10T's (only have 5T's up right now).

Once again, so glad to have you back to bounce these things off of!
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 04 2012 :  15:22:26  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm up to 7T's running and found minor discrepancies in testing the T's while in the circuit (not running).

What bothers me is that if I unhook the charge battery temporally 3 LED's come on bright, 4 are very dim.
I figure I either need to learn to solder better or I have something else going on...

It's not 3 in a row bright, it's 2,6&7 are bright...

Typical?
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 04 2012 :  17:02:31  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi olddawgsrule...

If I disconnect the charge battery, even for an instant, no neons glow and it blows transistor 2. Not sure why you have some glowing brightly and others glowing dimly but, it's a lot better than burning out a transistor. Sounds like you are doing a great job on the build.

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 05 2012 :  17:28:44  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Poppy!
I would like to think I'm learning and moving forward!

I'm up to 9T's running and re-soldered a few connections thinking it may be why the weird position of lights were coming on.
I also need to correct myself...
Their not LED, their 100v neon bulbs (you caught that and let me get away with it..).

With this re-work, now the first in line is the brightest and downward from there.
This makes sense to me.

I believe we've spoke about this before, but I have to ask you... probably again....
I can jump voltage really quick, but the battery will not sustain that voltage unless I let her run for hours.
I know you're running 8 coils/rotor and I'm only running my 6" SSG fan re-build so there is no comparison.
But.... if you charge in minutes, does it really hold that charge???
Or, do you find what I am, that it takes a bit more charge time to hold the charge.

Poppy, I took an old, NFG battery and hooked it up and jumped 3.45v to 9.3v in seconds, by the time I light a cigarette and sat back it was up to 10.5v and climbing! Was I excited, heck ya!
I pulled it and put it to run and watched it drain just as fast....
I now have this battery maintaining 13+v with about 12 hrs (on and off cycle) using my 'constant' power supply.
I need more time to sustain the power...

I have a feeling you're about to advise me to go back my rotor & coil and figure out the problem there.....


Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 05 2012 :  18:59:45  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Olddawgsrule...

No, you are absolutely correct the battery charges to over 13 volts in just minutes and when disconnected the voltage settles to a lower voltage. The more you continue to charge and let settle and charge again the higher the voltage will settle. It may take 10 or more cycles for the battery to be conditioned to hold the high voltage spike charge from the pulse motor as apposed to the high amperage automobile battery charger. The biggest difference to the pulse charge is that it won't boil the battery like a regular charger.

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 06 2012 :  16:57:58  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Poppy, I have a request (surprise, another..).

I like the way the Sampu is running with the re-build 6" fan.
I wish to compare to your rotor & 8 coil set-up.

I'm asking because I have two different directions to head from here.
If I'm way behind in output, then I need to backup a bit and work on my rotor and coils.
If I'm anywhere near (which I highly doubt), then I'm looking at seriously adding the rotor to the fan and running the coils in addition.

I did a quick test with a wire rotor and 2 coils, there's plenty of torque to spare from this fan.

I'm not sure how to compare.

Once again, if I may, so good to be able to talk to you again!!!
My thought was reading the input/output amps.

My system is using .55amps @ 12.10vdc (6.6watts)
Output on a dead battery (14.4vdc reading 1.8vdc cold) is .24amps (went as high as .3amps, but settled there).
Output on the battery I'm conditioning is .07amps and that makes sense to me, it's up to 13.50vdc and climbing from there.
I figured running on something dead would give me the highest possible output reading and show me what I can do with 'your' circuit.

If there's a better way to do this, please advise me.

Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 06 2012 :  17:08:32  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Olddawgsrule...

The Sampu Express draws 2 amps from the run battery and charges at 1.5 amps. I am sure the input amps is correct but not sure that the measurement on the output is absolutely correct. I connect the ammeter to the negative side of the charge battery to get this measurement. The run amps is measured by placing the ammeter on the negative side of the run battery. Don't know if it helps you or not, but you can connect your ammeter the same way to get relative results.

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 06 2012 :  17:43:23  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're doing it as I am.
Wow, I did something right!

I'm going to try for 2 things today...
I'm seeing your getting 75% of your input to your output.
I'm getting only 42%.

I guess the next question is; where the battery was at cold start (or time of charging).

If your battery was much higher and conditioned, then the numbers are 'way' off.
And to be real about this, it's what I expect.

Once again, thanks Poppy!
Love experimenting!





Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 06 2012 :  23:58:42  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR...

I read your post in solar power and you said you will finally get to contribute after rebuilding your failing solar panel. You, my good man, contribute quite a bit by asking questions and keeping us thinking. I appreciate all you do to further all of us.

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy

P.S. I love experimenting too. Check out my new video on an oldie but goodie the "Reed Switch Motor".
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 07 2012 :  07:45:45  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the kind words.

As I pondered these simple numbers, I've decided to go back and re-work the coils.
I'm guessing that your efficiency comes from more input power.

Assuming your using a 12v supply and consuming 2amps, you're input would be 24watts.
Compared to my 6.6watts.

I'm thinking this may be one of the reasons for partial neon's being bright and others very dim.
I may not be providing enough power to the Sampu and not using the full circuit as it's intended.

I'll put the fan on a smaller circuit and see if it likes it's new home..
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 07 2012 :  08:35:04  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR...

You've mentioned a FAN on several occasions, it finally hit me, I don't understand the reference. Can you put a picture or a video of what you are doing here so I can see the circuit and layout. THANKS!

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 07 2012 :  18:01:57  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well i went back to the rotor and coil and having, once again, a hard time getting a second coil up.

I've been there, and had it up, having a tough time again...

I have a feeling it has to do with distance from the rotor, equal coils and connection....

When you added your second coil I'm sure you had some frustrations.
God I hope so.... otherwise I'm alone here again...

Did you have to tune down/up the rotor?

Good news is; The battery I'm conditioning just shot passed 14vdc with a single coil running.
Forget the fan, I need a second, third , fourth..... coil running.

How the Heck did you do this without stalling the rotor?
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 08 2012 :  07:00:22  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is the 6" fan re-build I did
24vdc 1amp fan



I didn't know if my issues were with the circuit or my coil/rotor setup.
So I re-build this fan and went back to all my circuits and re-tested.

Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 08 2012 :  07:19:54  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is where I'm at right now


It's running in this picture.
Rotor is a shallow CD case with 8 earth magnets mounted on a CD drive spindle
(believe that also came from you)

Circuit is the Sampu running on 9T's (I'm awaiting more neon's).

I'm up early today, in excitement to test the run hooked up to my UPS battery.
That's a 12vdc 205ah Werker that I'm having problems getting over 12.12vdc with my solar panels.
I'm up to 12.24vdc after 45 minutes of running.
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 08 2012 :  11:36:25  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR...

Your setup looks quite nice. The coil may be a little too long. My coils are about 3 to 3.25 inches long, yours looks like it might be close to 5 inches long. The first coil I ever made was about 6" long and took about 2000 winds to get the motor to run. It worked but wasn't very efficient.

Are you using bifilar coils or layered coils? When I wrap coils I put 800 winds of run wire on first then over that 400 winds of trigger wire. The Tinman winds his trigger first and run second, still layered. The two ends of the coil are cut from the case cover of an old monitor or tv. The center hole is expanded to accept 1/2" pvc pipe and glued on each end. If there are any gaps between the ends and the pipe fill it with fingernail polish or other non metallic filler. Coat hanger wire or welding rods are cut to length to fill the core. I have the core flush with the face of the coil, some extend the core beyond the face. Flat head screws are used to fasten the coil wire to an extension wire with an alligator clip on the end to connect to the circuit (makes the coils easy to use on other projects). Since I never take apart my Sampu Express I have secured my coils to the board with nylon ties and soldered the trigger connections and run connections to the circuit. Hope this over explanation helps!

~~~Success is just one connection away!~~~

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 08 2012 :  12:23:45  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My coils are layered. Like TinMan 800 run, 400 trigger with trigger wound first.
Actual dimensions of coil is 4" OA.
Wire is 2 7/8" across, ends being 1/2"+ and the core (welding rods) stick out 3/8" (making them 4 3/8" OA).

My core is made from a 3/4" pvc pipe, making my core 5/8".

It looks like I'm close on wire turns and dimension across.
My core seems to be the biggest difference.

Well, besides the fact yours run better, look nicer and I'd never get 8 of mine around this rotor.

I have a second one made up with smaller ends to allow spacing around the rotor.

Two more are half built awaiting my finding more wire.
Problem being, I wound the runs first this time (had the wire and the time), making these coils shorter length run wires...
It would also make the triggers longer...
Not sure how that will affect things..

Thanks Poppy!



Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 15 2012 :  12:07:20  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Poppy, I'm stuck...
I can not get the second coil up and running on the circuit.
I got up early this am and dis-connected 'everything'.
Re-tested and replaced two T's.
Re-soldered all my questionable connections and re-checked them all.
My jumpers 'all' got a make-over (tested and soldered if questionable).
Soldered the jumpers to the coils (and re-tested).

I've changed pot's, but only have a 50omh, 1K, 5K & 10K here.
You ask for a 25omh pot to run all 8 coils.

I have this feeling I need somewhere around a 880omh pot to run the 2 coils.
Can I add resistance to the 50omh Pot and get there?
Am I even on the right track?

I'm running my 1K pot with 1 coil up.
Did some 'basic' math and just worked out the difference between where I should be with 8 coils and where I'm at now.
Seems like I need to lose 123omhs off the pot (putting me at a 877omh pot).

I also wanted to confirm that you wired the coils separately ET/SR & ST/ER, then coil to coil you go ET/SR & ST/ER (then standard to the board).
Go to Top of Page

49er
Administrator



USA
4442 Posts

Posted - January 15 2012 :  12:12:59  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Once the motor is working please take this thread to pulse motor so all can share. Please

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 15 2012 :  12:38:13  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR...

It sounds like you're trying to make it too complicated. I can run the device with one coil or 8 coils. When I first built it I used 1 diode for each transistor input and 1 diode for each output and it was fine. I used 100 ohm resistors at the base of each transistor. The pot was a 5K ohm pot from Radio Shack. It now has a 39 ohm rheostat instead of a pot. I would think a 50 ohm to 20k ohm pot should work just fine. On the reed motor I just built it has a 20k ohm pot to the trigger and it works fine. I use 1 bifilar coil connected to the input, one side as trigger and one side as run. All the other coils are then connected in parallel to the single main coil. It isn't even necessary to place them at a magnet to get added speed and charging power although placing them at a magnet works even better. Get your motor running with one coil and then connect the start of the next coil to the start of the main run coil and then connect the end of the second coil to the end of the main coil you should hear the motor increase in speed even before you place the second coil at the rotor (only one trigger is used). I also connect each trigger coil (on bifilar coils) in parallel with the run section of each individual coil before connecting them to the next coil. Your coils will vary no matter how carefully you hand wind them, but they should all be fairly similar. I have all bifilar coils on the Sampu I didn't start layering coils until after the machine was completed. The fully fashioned machine is a little hard to start, I have to use the eraser end of a pencil to produce enough speed for the trigger to generate enough current to fire the transistors. Don't give up! As Mr. Monk says: "You'll thank me later".

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 15 2012 :  13:21:21  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Poppy and I'm not even close to giving up!
Just listening, researching and learning.

I think I just learned you can change the properties of a pot!
If I have this right, it's connecting a resistor between the ground and the out (1&2 which I usually connect).

If you happen to see smoke coming up from New England... it may be me....
I'm back to experimenting.
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 15 2012 :  13:25:45  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR

Once the motor is working please take this thread to pulse motor so all can share. Please

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.



Absolutely!
Once I figure out what I've done wrong, I'd love to save someone else the effort, anguish, bruises, well you get the idea....
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 17 2012 :  12:53:49  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SUCCESS!
I have the second coil on and running!
That's the good news.

You're probably not going to like what it took...

I remembered what I did the last time I had 2 running and repeated it.
I had to advance the second coil.
Meaning, the second coil reaches the magnet before the main coil does.

The further I advance it, the faster the rotor spins (well, of course to a point).

Is this what you've done with yours?
"slightly" advanced?

I'm setting up the third coil now (only run wire on it, but it's an addition).
Thinking I should keep the second slightly advanced and allow the third to be as well.

Am I on track here?
Or once again, about to burn out something else on this circuit??
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 17 2012 :  13:41:30  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR...

Great Job and good catch on coil placement.

That is part of tuning your motor you place your coils where they produce the best results. It could be a magnet is not placed in the exact spot it should be ( I use a protractor to mark the "exact" spot it should be placed) or the transistors are not firing at exactly the same time. Continue to do that until you have all your coils where they work best then mark the spots and fasten them to the board.

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - January 17 2012 :  16:26:16  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Once the second came on line I figured it would be easier to get the next.
Here's what I have so far;


These are only running on the run's.
Triggers are for some reason causing problems....
Tried both parallel & series, but 'no joy'...

Very excited to be where I'm at!

Thank you Poppy for your patience.
Go to Top of Page

Poppy
Average Member



USA
418 Posts

Posted - January 17 2012 :  17:11:19  Show Profile Send Poppy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR...

Lookin' Good!

The trigger coils on my setup are connected in parallel to the run coil on the same spool (meaning start of trigger to start of run and end of trigger to end of run) and I didn't connect the last coil back to the first. I see by your photo you have them wired correctly.

Good Experimenting...
Poppy
Go to Top of Page

jneo
Junior Member



Australia
96 Posts

Posted - February 05 2013 :  05:40:22  Show Profile Send jneo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Poppy i have seen lots of stuff you have done great work I would like to know if this sampu circuit could be used on a window motor what are your thoughts on that I have made a window motor have been using an ssg circuit on it but looking for better results Regards jneo
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
International Alternative Energy Center © 2000-2009 ForumCo.com Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.61 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000
RSS Feed 1 RSS Feed 2
Powered by ForumCo 2000-2008
TOS - AUP - URA - Privacy Policy
ForumCo Free Blogs and Galleries
Signup for a free forum or Go Banner Free