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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member


USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 09 2013 :  08:18:39  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since Doug and I have run a few tests, figured it may be time to seperate this topic.

Look at;
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For the first parts of the discussion.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 09 2013 :  08:41:42  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doug's wife made the true version of the candle heater using the Terra-cottar pots.

I'll let him describe the how and why's of theirs.

I found I couldn't get the pots cheap enough right now, so I built up a soup can version.

This is my previous version


The fins on the top came from finding high heat values along the post and at the top of the can.
The fins seemed to be paying off nicely!

Though you can not see it, there is a smaller can inside.
Layers of cans (pots) are important.
Heat collects quickly in the smaller and transfers to the larger outside one.

I also believe the post hanging down and the candle flame aligned on it is important.
Distance is something I'm playing with.
Too close and too much soot builds up.

I working on some numbers to evaluate the Heater.
Working with just the basic of numbers, the heater seems to increase the candle's BTU output by 3 to 5 times.
Remember, we're only dealing with a source of about 50BTUhr's.
So it will not heat your home..
Possibly a small room

I've gone a little different direction with this and will get into it a bit more after the first test (running now).

I'm working from home today, so I'll have so time to play a bit and answer any questions (if you're so inclined to ask).

This is a fun experiment and my curiosity just got the better of me..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on December 09 2013 08:59:46
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 09 2013 :  14:23:32  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay.. I found some terra cotta pots cheap!

I picked up a 8", a 6" and a 4"

This is the 6" with the 4" inside up and running for a test.



10 minutes in and I can already see more uniform heat (what I expected to see).

The 8" just made it look huge!
I see what I get for temps, if high enough, then I will add the 8" over.

The best running ones I've read about are a 3 pot system.
Just can't remember if they were 8" outside or smaller inside..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on December 09 2013 14:26:23
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 09 2013 :  15:36:00  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If anyone chases down a simular path..
Here's a great converter I've found!

You must be logged in to see this link.

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 10 2013 :  17:48:48  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is my run sheet.

Upper section is the Soup Can Heater
Lower is the new clay pot heater



I decided to write in high/lows so you can see them (vs average)
I also decided to put it in the office (960 cubic ft)

@Doug, If you could shoot me some of your numbers, I'd love to see what you have there!





Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 16 2013 :  16:51:27  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My apologies Doug.. Just saw some of your numbers you posted.
Thank you for that!

From the picture I believe you're running a 8" outer with a 6" inner..
When you return home, please confirm for me.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 16 2013 :  17:17:28  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

I have a 6" and a 4". We are on our way to Tucson, Az and will be back around Sunday.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 16 2013 :  17:51:06  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, Tucson,, 73F, comfortable.. and dry.. Ah..
Not a bit jealous.. really..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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kcarring
Moderator



Canada
1057 Posts

Posted - December 17 2013 :  11:57:24  Show Profile Send kcarring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've seen these devices, and they are kind of popular within the small crowds that talk about them. Reading the thread it would seem, at least that the metal fins (tin cans) would offer a completely different effect than the clay pots. I see the tin as a heat exchanger and I see the clay as a heat sink. Interesting experiment guys. I guess the next question would be a way to make non toxic candles for next to nothing.


Cheers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You wouldn't laugh at my igloo if you knew how cold my beer is!
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 17 2013 :  18:59:06  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
KC, that's we're I'm at with the tin vs clay.

My latest (unspoken of) experiment is a hybrid.

I have a 'Question Thread' that pertains to what I'm seeing.
Would like to hear your input.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 19 2013 :  18:05:52  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What I see so far:

1) 2 to 3 containers works best.

2) It takes time for the terra cotta to heat up.
I'm talking days vs hours.
Once at temp, it will produce!
Yet, remember, we're only dealing with a 50 Btu source.. So don't expect a lot.

3) The bolt, this is of question, so far I find turning it around and allowing the bolt to extend above the unit, with soup can lids spaced over, produces the most. Fins. 1 washer, 1 nut, 1 washer, next lid and repeat to 4 maybe 5. Beyond that, too low a heat.

4) At Doug's stated cost of candle, he could burn x3 mine..Our candles are within 5% of calorific value.

5) Infra red light works better than candle due to consistency of output when used with terra cotta (over given amount of time)

With all this said..
I'm still uncertain of which way to utilize this..

I do believe the fins above add to the production.
I do believe IR light is the way to go, but cost of candle vs how many could be there and time involved to keep it going makes me wonder..

Currently I have a 250w IR running in a 8" terra cotta pot and holding a 8 degree gain, within 3096 cubic feet and a 6 degree heat loss (within an hour, from current temp.. it's freakin' cold here..).






Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 21 2013 :  14:11:25  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

The thing is with this type of out lay of money is you can afford 2 or 3 of these and put it in a none heated room for instance a guest room for a day or even a night to heat it with out much cost. My wife put 4 candles close together the other night to heat our guest room and LOL it looked like a smudge pot on the underside when she looked it on it. She didn't think it got that hot to melt all the wax at once. She has learned. LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 21 2013 :  17:14:40  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You just stated the same question I asked on the other thread..LOL!!
It all comes down time.

Love how she went at the problem!
Pass on to her please,, It takes time..
So far I'm seeing days vs hours..

The candles will do aprox 50Btu/h
Throw 3 or 4 under and you increase (then is close to my cost), but that dam time factor comes into play..

If you had started a few,, a few days before,, it may have caught up to the loss and produced..

What I'm seeing is it takes time to warm the terra cotta, then the items in the room, then the room.
Far too many heat sinks 'everywhere'... for such a low source..

For your cost of candle vs mine, I'd be burning four of them together.

Most of all I want you to think fins over.. it really makes a overall difference..

Collection plus transference..





quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR

The thing is with this type of out lay of money is you can afford 2 or 3 of these and put it in a none heated room for instance a guest room for a day or even a night to heat it with out much cost. My wife put 4 candles close together the other night to heat our guest room and LOL it looked like a smudge pot on the underside when she looked it on it. She didn't think it got that hot to melt all the wax at once. She has learned. LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 15 2014 :  15:40:42  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Guy's,
I been lookin for the stuff to try this ...
I found teracotta pot's at Lowe's a couple week's ago 6in and a 3or4in they were around a buck apeice , well the 6in was over a dollar .. anyway , I found a brass , "I guess it would be a chafting dish holder" at a thrift store for $1.50 and am tryin it out now ...
We are just having a cool spell here ... So, I should kinda get the idea of how well they should work before it's put up for summer ...
If I find a way to post pic's , I'll show it .

=========================================
I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
=========================================
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - April 15 2014 :  16:05:11  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kudzu, the best candle style I have is a 2', 3", 4" with a lot of washers on the inside.

The running unit I have (and works quite well) is a hybrid: 6" terracotta pot with Quart sized lid/bottoms as fins over and little metal inside. Look above at my soup can version and you'll see the fins over.
This worked best with candle and how 'I' now run the heater.

I now use a 250w infra-red bulb in which I've hooked up a thermostat.
The candles were too inconsistent on production, distance of candle flame to pot meant too much and by the time the terracotta warmed up, the first candle was done..

I've tried smaller bulbs, but 'Bang for buck' is the 250w (thermostat being the turning point).

I'm rather interested in what you come up with!!

For posting pic's..
Get a You must be logged in to see this link. account.
It's free (My favorite word).
Copy the image code and paste it in your message.
Once you do that either I or Doug will show you what to delete from the code so it shows up well.




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 15 2014 :  16:59:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

I found the candles in wall mart this week 100 for 2.50 cheep just something to try and cheep. These do work for a cool day in one room at a time. GOOD LUCK

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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Kudzu
Administrator



USA
1619 Posts

Posted - April 17 2014 :  16:25:48  Show Profile Send Kudzu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I used an old christmas candle I found around here , It was about 5in tall & about 2in thick ..
In about an hour of burning it was radiating heat , by the 2 hour mark I couldn't keep my hand's on it for more than a few second's ...
I have a long nut on the bottom of the bold that bolt's the two terracotta pot's together , So when I use the little candles I can thread another bolt into it and have the bold closer to the flame ...
My thought is the metal should take the heat sooner to transfer it to the pot's ..
Sorry, I didn't post sooner , I had a shelf collapse while I was putting some fairly heavy stuff on it , I caught it at a weird angle and wrestled it back onto the metal bar that the shelf was suppose to be supported with .
I pulled several thing's in my neck and chest stopping the crash ..
If I'd known beforehand the ruff pain that would cause , I would have let it fall and just cut new plywood to fix the shelf !

=========================================
I still think the only dumb questions are the one's you didn't ask ...
=========================================
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Benjamin Franklin
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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - April 17 2014 :  17:25:25  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi K

Hind sight is always better than for sight. LOL BUT hope you feel better soon.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - April 17 2014 :  17:46:02  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to my world!
The transference with metal will happen quicker, RonO taught me this in his explanation of specific heat of items.
Yet production of gathered heat is another story.
I believe that's what RonO was pushing me towards understanding.

This was a great experiment for me and learned something new!

This is my running unit;



I believe best of both worlds.
Quick transference through the metals and absorption in the clay.
Can't touch either within an hour.. Can't touch the metal with a 1/2hr..

Looking forward to what you gain from this!


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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