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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member


USA
1434 Posts

Posted - November 26 2013 :  17:18:04  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's that time of year we're all trying to stay warm!
Well, at least us folks in the 'colder' climates.

I've looked at different experiments and seen failure due to excessive heat.
Where they failures, or where they something different..

This has me re-thinking of recapture of heat.

What I'm asking is for you look again at those experiments, what over heated and think if they didn't and still worked..
How much heat was created?

I've looked into the Friction Heater,,, Still believe there's something there..
I'm looking and determining the ease/value of bio-product and how to determine..
I'm also re-thinking some of my past failures of circuits and the heat reasoning..

Just me thinking..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 06 2013 :  16:43:33  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This dam candle heater has me wondering what's really there.

I have a handle on the briquettes now, or at least to my satisfaction.

This candle heater heater is pretty cool.

Folks are using clay pots over a candle in different configurations to re-claim the heat.

I will not post a YouTube video of some frivolous experiment not showing numbers.
We need numbers.

To me, this is nothing more than heat transference.
That being the case/belief, then metal will transfer quicker.
So I made a simple soup can heater.

I won't get into specific's yet, cause I don't know if it's worth the effort..
Just to say;
sides cut out far enough to allow full burn
I happen to have a metal cabinet foot (great for capturing the flame)
And found a decent wick sized candle to produce some heat

Within minutes the post is 150F
At 20 minutes in 230F

Sounds pretty cool aye?
Container is at 78F...
Room temp, 68F

Heat transference..

I'm looking at fins above the container, of light metal (beer cans), on the post to transfer the gained the heat.
At this point, far too early to make any decisive direction..
But... I am having a hard time seeing a container at all..

The post, the fins.. Hmm..
Transfer the heat as quick as you can
As simply as possible

Thoughts??


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 06 2013 :  16:53:04  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

I think the size of the heated area like with the pots vrs. the can which has a small area so its all heat transference to the air? Just a thought

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 06 2013 :  17:38:15  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, I do believe so far it's as simple as transference.

If you think about it, all your doing is transferring heat.
With the pots your slowly heating the pot then slowly cooling the pot.
Yes the pot is hotter longer.
Yet how much heat did you really transfer?

I bought a cast stove vs a soapstone stove.
Why..
Heat transference. Okay.. cost came in mind as well...

I can transfer the heat produced quicker, cleaner with cast than with soapstone.
Yes the soapstone remains hotter, longer, but I yet to prove it's worth the weight in over-all production.

Same way I look at the clay style pots..

If the heat is concentrated on the rod, which it seems to be, then transference is on the rod, not the container.
The container is a by-product

Think of an electric baseboard heater
Fins off a core that is heated

230F off the core
98F (currently) off the container

Hmm.. I'm looking at the core curiously..
Skip the container..

Then again.. I'm curious.. And I really like what your wife did!
Got a good one there..






Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 07 2013 :  09:00:40  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Had to shut down the candle heater..
The candle was unscented, but the last one in the holder obvisously was scented and over powered the room..

Started it back up this morning downstairs.

Again, within minutes the post is 130F
The can is 75F
The room is 58F

Just checked it after a half hour

Post is pushing 200F
Can top 115F
Can side 85-90F

Cool part here.
All I did was cut the sides of the can to make an opening for air to the candle and bent the flap upward.

With the flap bent upward, almost fully up,
I read 230F of can and air coming out of the heater.
With the flap horizontal to the opening only 130-150F..

Surprised me!





Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 07 2013 :  09:49:46  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hour later and breaking 300F coming out of the can..

I'm just going to have to make a pot heater and see how it goes!

Did find a rather nice one on the internet for $29.99 with a nice stand.
He also has a Infra Red or Quartz Halogen version..
Interesting!

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 07 2013 :  14:47:03  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Back from the Dollar store and couldn't come up with any pots..
Figures, they cost much more..
Did get some better candles though.

The Big Box Hardware store had them, but would have cost close to what that guy is selling his unit for...
I bought one.

I did grab some cans and made a version.
My way.. free, well except for the candles..



Two things I'm looking at:
Center container may still be too tall and need to shorten it a bit..
Next is Candle container..
As the candle warms and goes fluid, the temp goes down.
I'm working on a way to allow the candle to burn full and allow the wax to collect below.



That's the candle at full
And I did break 400F inside!
Hitting an average of 120F outside and fairly quickly (under 30 minutes)

It just went fluid too quickly and temps dropped..

Now I'm getting even more curious..
Put a Infra Red or Halogen in there..
What kinda heat would really be produced?
At what I pay, around .18 a kilowatt (inclusive)..
Would not a 60w bulb cost me just greater than a penny an hour?
Would that also mean the candle the candle has to last??


Now to run that bulb on my Joule Ringer or Thief..
Hmm..

Have I mentioned my curiosity is my greatest weakness yet?







Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  09:06:36  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I made a couple of changes..

I took the outer 3rd can off.
It is staying too cool as to what the post and inside temps are reading.
I also add 2 fins (can lids) to the top of the post (seems where a lot of heat is going.

20 minute run:
inside breaking 600F (main area averages 350+F)
Outside of can average 105F
Here's the neat part..
Top fin reaches 155F

This version I can feel some heat off of!

Candle has already liquefied..

Room temp downstairs is 66F
close to 1800 cubic ft of area
Doubt the temp will go up, but we'll see..

I'll run it about an hour to see where it settles.
I'm going to bring it upstairs and put it in the small bathroom and give it a good run there.
380 odd cubic ft of space

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on December 08 2013 09:10:38
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  09:46:27  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hit 188F on the top fin!

Flame is too close to the bolt, much too much soot build-up..

Not a bad run!

Couple of adjustments after it cools and moving it upstairs to the bathroom.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  11:30:49  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Just came home from the grand kids so I will get to work.
My wife's pot heater looks like this.





So I started a test run today in my small bed room 640 CF. temp 17F outdoors. The pots are 5" tall by 6" wide the smaller one is 4" tall by 3" wide and we use 3 fender washers and a 3" bolt and nut. The candle is 1" tall and 1 1/2" wide not scented.

Starting temp is 60F and 20 min later temp is at center over the candle 168F and at the lower skirt of the pot is 97F.

Another 20 min later center pot temp 188F and skirt temp 98F.

At the 1 hr mark center of pot 195F and 102 at the skirt

At the 2 hr mark center of the pot is 205F and the skirt is 121F

At the 3 hr mark center of the pot is 230F and the skirt is 149F and the shot glass is 101F

At the 4 hr mark center of the pot is 235F and the skirt is 151F and the shot glass is 102F and about 3/8" of candle left.

candle went out at about 4 1/2 hrs







Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  11:44:00  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool! Thank you!

Try to take a read inside if you can..

My voltive candle, like what your using, drown..
Had to re-start and this time used a tea candle.


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  12:35:40  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

As you can see in pic with the candle it is in a glass like shot glass and at the 2 hr mark I looked at the candle it is liquid and burning just fine the liquid looks to be at least 3/4 " still. next up date 20 after the hour..

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  12:51:46  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Do you have a nut and washer on the end of the post or just align the flame to bolt?

Or even attempt to??

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  12:56:09  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is the latest version



Now you can see the fins at the top.
I'm getting 200F from between them!


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  13:36:36  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

The can looks good. All my data keeps going up. LOL

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  13:52:26  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Update numbers!!
Remember.. I'm a very curious kinda fella..

That is still a two can unit.
All I did was remove the outer third can.

Since my flame is centered on the post, the post was the hottest point.
That brought in the idea of the fins.

That is no longer the case.

Hottest area is the interior is the inner can.
Just broke past 600F inside that container (at highest reading)
Fins are doing 120F at top and 200F between.



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  14:32:02  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

You may want 2 or 3 bolts to transfer heat. 600 to 120 looks to me to hold to much heat??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  14:46:28  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still wondering if you have the flame on the bolt??

I believe I have 2 different transference's happening.

The air is passing from center container over 600F into the second.
The post is being heated directly from the flame, which runs 350F ish

Where I see my issue, is the air temperature is not being transferred as well as I hoped to see.

The post is transferring heat beautifully.
I think the fins are my answer that question.

Air, where the greatest temps are, is the issue of point for me.
Is the air escaping through the bottom to quickly??

My next move would be to shorten the inner container even more than I have.
Maybe even the secondary and put the Third back on...

Still wondering what your flame is hitting??


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  15:43:14  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR
My question is who many watts will a candle make??


Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  16:14:45  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Average candle will produce 50 BTU's per hour..
Wattage? I have to ask you to do the math..

I see our candles in the 61-72 BTU range range depending,,,
Don't know yours.. Know mine.. Using Calorific weight.
Your's??

So far, by math, I'm doing 300% of the candle's possible BTU.
But that's still only 150 BTU (give a bit).
That still does not take inter consideration, the air floow of heat, nor the fins..

Still awaiting some numbers from ya buddy..
Was really hoping to compare..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  16:40:15  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

my candle is .84 oz or 24 gram that is all the box says. Best I have found for price is 600 for 42.00 so far for the 4 1/2 to 5 hrs.



Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  18:55:14  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wax calorific value 8.4 kJ/g
Puts it at 191 BTU's per hour

That's candle only.. Can not evaluate without some numbers on Your run..

I'm getting close to 300% production from the heater..
Not including air induction.. workin' on that part..

Really would like to see your numbers on the run to compare results.

My run shows a 150 BTU (plus or minus) heater.
My best guess right now, is 250 BTU..

Curious on your numbers..




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4427 Posts

Posted - December 08 2013 :  19:32:59  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

You tell me how to get the numbers you need and I will try

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE doug.bennett49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 09 2013 :  08:15:46  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just PM'ed you
Looking for your email addy to attach my spreadsheet

Don't know how to put it here yet..
Actually, still a work in progress and probably shouldn't till the numbers are confirmed by others..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - December 09 2013 :  08:19:11  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I started a thread just for the Candle Heater

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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