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 Transformers, Generators and Electric Motors.
 12v drill running a generator.
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IrishDave
Senior Member


Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  14:15:15  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys.

I have been testing a 12v drill running a generator and I am getting an output of 47.5v. My DC-DC transformer is only good up to 30v.
I am not too familiar with caps, but can they be used to drop the voltage to charge a 12v charge battery?

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  14:54:55  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

To my knowledge no. A dropping diode will work best and is easy. Or you can regulate your speed on the drill.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  17:57:59  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IrishDave

Hi Guys.

I have been testing a 12v drill running a generator and I am getting an output of 47.5v. My DC-DC transformer is only good up to 30v.
I am not too familiar with caps, but can they be used to drop the voltage to charge a 12v charge battery?



When RonO pipes in on this be prepared,,,
You're going to get questions..
Once those are answered, You're going to get solutions!!

Let's see what I've learned so far Ron..

12v drill source at what voltage(?), at what amperage(?) equals wattage
Output DC voltage (?) at what amperage (?) equals wattage

Point of comparison.
Wattage

If the point is to only drop voltage with a capacitor..
Then ignore the rest..
Use resistance..
If not, then read and let Ron grade me.



My basic 110v drill runs at 4.5a, thus equaling 495watts
The questions becomes at 47.7v are you producing 10a's?
That would be equal.

Can Cap's compensate?
I believe not.. (then maybe.. depending on how)
Cap's can do amazing things as I've learned.
Filter, balance and clean.
Yet wattage still remains as wattage, with loses involved with added components..
They can hold volume to they're capacity and release, yet if you're over-producing there reaches a point that the cap can not hold.

Kinda a cool sight to see, if you're backed away far enough, and like explosions.. PPE required..

Factor your wattage on both ends.
Loss or gain?

Can Cap's help...??
Maybe..
More info..

So how'd I do Ron...
Did I learn something???



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  06:40:12  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys.

I do not think I have the option to reduce the drill speed on the hybrid circuit I am trying, although I can try add more diodes to it.

The drill is running on 12v and I have not tested the amperage. I don't think the amperage is important here as the drill will be running as a free load. I was thinking of something along the lines of a wind regulator/controller for reducing the voltage back down?
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  09:28:27  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

Don't know what your idea is but they tell you not to put a controller on a wind gen. If that helps? The transformer may take the voltage because that is unloaded voltage and will drop to operating voltage when loaded and you are looking at working voltage on the transformer.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  17:27:31  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"I have been testing a 12v drill running a generator and I am getting an output of 47.5v."

I can spin a couple of my little DC motors I have around here and create that voltage or better with any drill I have around here.
But no wattage of use.

"The drill is running on 12v and I have not tested the amperage.
I don't think the amperage is important here as the drill will be running as a free load."

The drill amperage is important for input wattage (drill) to compare against output wattage (generator).
And there is a load.. the generator..

If the generator is running open...
You still don't know what's really being produced.

Add a load to the generator, measure.
Go ahead, blow a few led's.. they're cheap..
That's where I start and work the load up from there.

My guess here is you're testing a generator to use as your wind gennie.

Not knowing the circuit, not knowing this DC/DC transformer you mention..
Not knowing what it's transforming..
Step-up../Step-down..??

It's my best guess at this point.








Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  05:59:32  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys.

I am testing out some parts for a possible entry into the PMBO 2013.
The DC/DC transformer (power supply module) I am testing is here... You must be logged in to see this link.
The generator (can't find a link for this) is from a commercial air-com unit. I am testing the possibility of adding this as a load and would like to run back all (if any) power back into the system. I don't expect I will see much wattage at 47.5v.
It is all just testing for ideas at this stage, but I want to start sooner rather than later as I have seen some past entries fail to meet the closing deadline.
I will be back testing later today.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  13:58:45  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahh!

"I don't expect I will see much wattage at 47.5v."

Don't be too quick on this...
Snap a picture of the spec plate and let's have a look-see..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  15:20:40  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

From the experiments Steve and I did you won't see any thing you will blow up your transformer so try it.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  20:16:21  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys

Firstly , the generator is producing about 47 volts but at what loading ? if its open circuit then this will drop when under load.

Capacitors are best suited for dropping AC voltages ( it is possible to use a paralled cap + resistor and a second cap paralled with a resistor connected in series to form a voltage divider but its only good for low currents )


Sorry its not much info at the moment.

ODR, you are learning well.... drill input wattage , generator load ? etc

ron
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 31 2013 :  05:56:12  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am just about to record some footage and I will upload it today.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 31 2013 :  08:53:55  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

Looking forward to it.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 31 2013 :  09:49:53  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a quick video showing the voltage output and the amp draw.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 31 2013 :  13:52:46  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I Dave

I think that that motor is a step motor and that you can do a lot with it. TM knows more about it and can tell you. You need a second meter on the motor when you are getting the amp reading so you know what the voltage is at the time of the amp reading then you multiply the 2 and get your watts you can make. Good start for the PMBO

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
Go to Top of Page

olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 31 2013 :  16:21:28  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My apologies Dave to disappoint..
I also did a search on all the configurations of the spec plate and could not come up with it.

What I can not read is the manufacturer.

Shoot me the manufacturer's name..
I'll see if I can trace it down from there.

What I did find is a couple of replacements.
Which means to me, this may be dis-continued..
With that said.. even the replacements will give you an idea of what the capability is supposed to be.

My eyesight is bad so I could not see the meter setting, yet I have to believe you're working with a 12v source and a 1.5a draw (having a hard time seeing a 150mA draw)

The additional wires:
My experiments with fans has shown me that the additional wires are different configurations of the coils with in the motor/generator.
If you switch between the wires, I believe you will see the same, different voltages.
They're using the same motor/generator to do separate functions at separate voltage/wattage.

Which brings in the thought...
If I use the Mains (which I believe you're on) and use the secondaries (which would be the other wires), am I still dividing the Wattage??
Or am I creating additional??

Hmm..
RonO???
'X' in means 'X', yet if we pull 'Y' through different configurations, at the same time...
Are we splitting the wattage?

Again, my apologies Dave for asking this question on your thread.
My hope is it helps your cause!







Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - August 31 2013 :  18:28:38  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

If your motor is the "stepping type" you should feel the shaft cog as you turn it slowly by hand ( each "cog" position is one "step" position )

If it has no "cogging" then it is possibly a variable speed type.

hope that helps

ron

Apologies Dave for trying to reply to ODR's question on your thread.

ODR.. not sure what you mean , please PM me more info about exactly what your refering to and i will try and answer your question .

hope that helps

ron
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - September 01 2013 :  07:16:10  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys.

The manufacturer is 'NIDEC SHIBAURA CORPORATION'
It is running on a 12v source and a 1.5a draw and I have just tested turning the shaft by hand. It does have cogging.
So where do I go from here?
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 01 2013 :  08:00:38  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just PM'ed you what I believe is a spec sheet for the unit the motor belongs in.

Wish I could just post you a pdf..
But, don't know how..

Take a look

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - September 01 2013 :  08:23:26  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spec sheet and Manufacturer lookup lead to the same assumption.
Believe your motor output is 33watts

Is that enough to run what you're looking to?

Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1052 Posts

Posted - September 01 2013 :  18:13:14  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

It would seem to be a stepping motor .To answer "where do i go from here ?" i would suggest "Jones on stepping motors" for technical or you could look at "the back shed" , stepper motor wind generator

I have answered ODR's question and after doing so i thought it may be of use to others so i have started a new topic

You must be logged in to see this link.

ron

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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  05:03:55  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cheers guys.

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rheandros
New Member



Germany
15 Posts

Posted - September 02 2013 :  05:22:59  Show Profile Send rheandros a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can run a capacitor in parralel on normal AC,to load batteries. Havn't tried it on a generator at 47V but i load my car batterie from Mains with a capacitor.

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