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IrishDave
Senior Member


Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  06:35:28  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys.

I have decided to supplement my solar by adding a wind turbine.
Looking on Aliexpress, they have a few I may be interested in.

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So do I go with a 12 or 24v one?
As they are listed as 600w max power, does this mean that they are maybe 400w units? - similar to inverters with a 1.5kw surge on a 1kw unit?
What are 'Cut in' and 'Cut out' speeds and how do they differ from 'Start-up' speeds.
Are any of the above models worth buying?
All suggestions welcomed :)

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  10:11:29  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

I have the one you first listed. It has worked for 12 years and only had one problem with it, very small had to much grease in the brg and it got down onto the slip ring and was bad news no contact. Mine is 400 watts and works well. It will start to spin at around 6 to 7 MPH (start up speed) 8 MPH (cut in) starts to make amps and at 40 MPH (cut out) speed the breaks come on and stop. at 40 MPH 400 watts at 12 MPH about 2 amps at 20 MPH 10 to 12 amps. Note when the leaves are on the trees the wind is different more defused so if you can get it up in clear air your good (above 60 ft or 20 meters) other than that it wont make much till the snow blows.
Forgot to say that these style blades are noisy and can be heard for 2 blocks (200 meters)

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  11:04:52  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

The other questions you asked only you can answerer. 12v or 24v that will depend on A. how long your cable run will be?? B. How good is your bank, you should have 400 AH + in the BANK and GOOD batteries.
Inverters same questions but cable length is only 2 meters max for both volts from batteries to the inverter just different size of wire. example my 12v 3000 watt needs 2 -000- size wires for both + and -, 24 volts would get by with 1 -000- size wire for both + and -.
Wind gens are the same way but 50 ft is max for 12v. 6 ga. and or 100 ft of 6 ga. for 24 volts. So the wire is also very costly for this type of system. If you can live with this coast then go for it.
This is why I have gone with the PMA wind gen, it can be either 12 or 24 or higher because up to 150 ft run can be only 12 ga and you put the FWBR AT the batteries much better. The blades from my Missouri Wind are very quiet can't here them at 20 feet. So that style is what I would build around. The Chinese have blades almost like that on there PMAs but they break more easily. There are more questions that will come so digest this and ask.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  14:22:16  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Doug.

I plan to put my battery bank within 6 feet of the house wall. The height of the house is between 29-32 feet (can't remember exactly). That means I will need about 38 feet just to reach the top of the house and I don't know how high I need to go up after that. I live on the start of a mountain so my house is elevated above most of the surrounding areas. The trees should not be a problem.
I don't know the size of the battery bank yet, but I am hoping that each battery will have at least 400AH (x12).

Noise could be a big game changer for me here. I plan to fix a pole to the side of my house, which is also my bedroom wall.
I can't have something too noisy.
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  16:19:16  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm with Doug on the PMA mainly because of distance I need to go (actually about to go).
I'm also a proponent of Missouri Wind blades.
Have them on my little 200w DC gennie..
Really thinking of changing the blades on my 500w'er..


I don't know if You must be logged in to see this link. works in your area, but found them a good resource for wind history.
Wish I had found them earlier..
Reason I mention this is, I bought the PMA (500w) as a 5 blade'r..
My little 200w is a 3 blade'r with those MW blades..
The 200 spins when I cough.. Well, a little more than that.. But I think you get the idea.

You may not need a 5 blade'r to get what you're after.
Especially with good blades.
Doug's advise of building around a good set of blades is solid.


Attaching to the house.. Been there won't do it again..
There is no perfect blade, motor or wind..
You will get vibrations.. and the not all 'good vibrations' (heh, song came to mind)..

Moved mine to the garage, it's detached, so no issue.
Actually like the sound out there!

Currently mine is down (took it down 2 weeks ago) and I'm extending the tower.
My area is tree'd and with the lee side being the garage, it's wind swept from the house (believing I have loss from up drafting).
I may have to guide-line to the house to do what I believe "I" need.
Insulating the vibration on the guide-line seems simple enough.
Insulating the tower... hmm.. I couldn't do it to where I could live with it..
Could have switched bedrooms with the kiddo.. Heh, heh...









Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  19:10:11  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

As ODR said on the building you sleep in you do get freq. vibs that can be bad but you know when your making power. LOL If you have to connect to your house I would suggest using old motor or trans. mounts to isolate those vibs. You will come up with something.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
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SKYPE bxx49er
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hkalan
Senior Member



Hong Kong
1019 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  19:46:55  Show Profile  Visit hkalan's Homepage Send hkalan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello Dave,

While living in China for so long, and an owner of several wind turbines purchased here in China.

I highly recommend that any turbine you buy from China or locally, be a 3 phase output. You can use 2mm2, 3 conductor cable from the turbine and into your dwelling, and then have the rectifier very close to your battery bank. This allows minimal loss.

The turbines you see on "Alibaba.com" that are 12vDC or 24vDC have internal controllers (tucked in the back of the tail of the turbine that also claim to be MPPT controllers). The controllers are not made to last. Very cheap, and in some cases, refurbished or grade D that do not have the RoHS or actual CE certificate, They will cause you many Many issues.

Speaking from experience here... several boats in the 5 marina's that I have worked on over the years, have been "12 or 24v Alibaba.com" turbines, and the only reason they had to come down for repair is due to the really bad controllers.

Seriously... stick with a 3 phase output. Do not use any type of controller (some say "Hybrid MPPT") they want to sell you. They are for small independent LED street lights with a small solar panel input, and a not so large battery bank.

A wind turbine should charge your battery bank... your dump load controller is all you need to make sure your bank does not over charge... You can make your own "Break Switch" and then all you need is a good rectifier !!!! I use a 75 amp for each of my 600w turbines.

If you are serious about buying China factory direct. Send me a PM and I will give you direct contact information from China factories that will stand behind their products and provide after sale support !

Alan

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totoalas
Junior Member



Macao
168 Posts

Posted - August 26 2013 :  19:48:43  Show Profile Send totoalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Check out DELANCO's DIY VAWT / YT discussed by Kyle in ef forum
Maybe you can draw out the circuit
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 27 2013 :  06:52:53  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cheers guys.

Well my wife is thinking about moving our bedroom back down to the 2nd floor. This would be great for the turbine as it would not be connected to a bedroom wall, but this may cause me bigger problems. The 2nd floor bedroom is directly above the TV room.
My wife has an early start for work, so she is in bed by 10pm most nights and this is the reason why we sleep 2 floors up.
The buffer has meant that I don't have to be too quiet at nite while she sleeps. I don't watch much TV, but I do like watching online documentaries on my TV.
I need to think about this, but I think I would prefer to stay putt and keep my situation as is and find another location for fixing the turbine.

I was following Doug's and Steve's thread on the VAWT and have considered building one of them - I think I have a motor that would be perfect for it too. Maybe Kyle can post a link for that thread?

Alan - can any of the companies you have in mind, match the prices of the ones listed above?
I think all of the ones I listed are 3 phase with CE certs.

I can buy a turbine locally but they are only 300w and for the same price as the 600w ones on Aliexpress.
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 27 2013 :  07:55:37  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

This is what is going in place of the VAWG that Steve and I tried to build. I think it is simple and any motor gen can be put on the end and I hope CHEEP. This will be built by me this fall.

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Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 27 2013 :  14:03:37  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doug, I'll ask you since you've done both Hawt and Vawt.

Given good winds at equal elevations..

What would be your Pro's and Con's, one vs the other?



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 27 2013 :  15:19:25  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

VAWG PRO close to the ground to work on -
CON must be in a very good wind area - cost -


HAWG PRO easy to put up - makes more power less effort- multi units per area- make more power for size of blade - this is what all commercial wind gens are being made -
CON cost of pipe to put up - length of wire from battery -



Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 27 2013 :  17:13:13  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Doug!

I hoped for an unbiased opinion, reason I did not give mine.
We're on spot!

I do not have good low wind, so altitude means everything to me!

Again, thank you



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  06:51:44  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had watched the snow shovel video before. We only see snow shovels for sale every few years when we get some snow and at 25 euros a piece, I am better off buying proper blades or a full wind turbine.

Anyone know what my best option might be?
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  08:05:59  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

Just start small but start for you will need to find what works best for you. My theory at first was many small ones at first and after 11 yrs I have went larger. Battery bank must be there first and soler next then add wind until then your just guessing.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  16:57:35  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
These are the blades I have running, not the unit..
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If I was to do this again, I wish I would have had this for an option:
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Not a stock owner...though I wish I could be..


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!


Edited by - olddawgsrule on August 28 2013 17:05:06
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  17:56:54  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Do you like the Falcon 3 and how noisy are the alum blade? Do you have a 3 or 5 blade??

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  19:00:26  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR

Do you like the Falcon 3 and how noisy are the alum blade? Do you have a 3 or 5 blade??




3 blade'r and I like.

My main unit is Chinese built and a very nice 5 blade'r.
Powder coated, nicely balanced and very quite.
She just doesn't spin as well..

The Falcon blades are noisier (at high speed only).
Yet running normal can't hear them 30' away (no difference between the two)

I can see where they could polish them up a bit.
Reduce a bit more drag (mainly along the edges)


Since the Falcon's are on my home-built gennie, they will over-turn (burnin'..).
That adjustment of furling and not turning out too quick/returning to has kept me up a few nights... and a few days on a ladder..

I've wondered a few times now of what the Big Bird (to me) could do with those blades...
And only 3...

I like!
Just my opinion...




Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 28 2013 :  20:20:56  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

I will go up on the roof on the next windy day and show you my 13 blade on the 500 watt it is really quiet. On the roof I can get 6 ' away real close up.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  07:01:46  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys.

My solar ran out at 1am this morning, so I need to get something to keep the batteries up over the winter.
I have about 200 AH in total if I link up my 4 batteries, so I hope that will be enough until the new bank arrives.
Do blade numbers decide the decibel levels of the turbines?
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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  08:59:42  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave

No number of blades only gives you more torque. The design of the blades is what makes the noise.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  14:07:23  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 49er

Hi ODR

I will go up on the roof on the next windy day and show you my 13 blade on the 500 watt it is really quiet. On the roof I can get 6 ' away real close up.


I remember the pic's you posted as you put that one together.
Don't recall, are those also MW blades?+


Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 29 2013 :  16:24:25  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:

My solar ran out at 1am this morning



Heh, been there and will be again... I'm certian..





Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  15:11:07  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

Yes MW 13/9/7 have all three

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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olddawgsrule
Advanced Member



USA
1434 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  16:59:06  Show Profile  Visit olddawgsrule's Homepage Send olddawgsrule a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doug, I believe I understand why you went into muliple blades.
Basic concept of either too low a consistant wind or attempting to drive a greater force.

Please correct me if wrong.

I have always felt "I" can only go to 5 blades with the winds I get.
Well, again, without building one heck of a tower...

I'm interested as why..



Old in age, not in mind, so
'Teach me something new'!

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49er
Administrator



USA
4426 Posts

Posted - August 30 2013 :  17:38:09  Show Profile Send 49er a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi ODR

The 7 blade is 35 ft and I think 500 watt AC. The 9 blade is on the new 1600 watt and is at 25 ft. this is a high wind start up 12 MPH I think. The 13 blade is on the house at 20 ft and is a PMG low wind and will start to make voltage at 6 MPH. J have the 35 and 20 ft tied together on one amp meter and the 1600 on its own. The other day we had wind gusts of 12 to 18 the 2 was making 14 amps and the 1600 was making 18 amps so I was happy . I have a new meter to separate the 2 so all can be seen at the same time.

Doug
The sky is not the limit...There are footprints on the MOON.
Your only as DUMB as where your standing.
No matter where you go there you are.
You must be logged in to see this link.
SKYPE bxx49er
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