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 The GEGENE experiment
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TinMan
Advanced Member


4082 Posts

Posted - April 03 2013 :  10:10:20  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is the first test on the GEGENE setup-that is suppose to produce OU with certain load's ??


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69

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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 03 2013 :  10:14:25  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In this video i have 2000 watts of halogen globe's as the load.Although not quite as bright as having them pluged directly into the grid,we are only drawing just over half of what they consume from the grid-that being 2042 watts.So now i will wind another coil to try and get the voltage down and amp's up.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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IrishDave
Senior Member



Ireland
850 Posts

Posted - April 04 2013 :  06:10:44  Show Profile Send IrishDave a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why does the paper, coil and epoxy not melt?
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 04 2013 :  09:03:33  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Dave
The reason it dosnt melt is because it dosnt get hot.Even with a dead short across the BPC,it only gets just warm.In the next video,i show a very heavy load on a second larger coil-but still it only just gets warm.Here is something interesting-the more load you put on the GEGENE,the less current is drawn from the grid???

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 04 2013 :  10:39:09  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is the next test video,with a heavy load on the second output coil.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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topper
New Member



34 Posts

Posted - April 04 2013 :  14:52:09  Show Profile Send topper a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I found out about gegene from the woopy and J. Naudin last year. It was first very cool to me, cause it showed OU with resistive load. I talked with my friend who works at university of automatic and he said that we have two kinds of electric energy that can be produced:
- active
- passive (if we use induction)
and normal wattmeter wont show all energy (passive) that is used to work induction machine. Only special wattmeter can show all. So normal wattmeter will show only active energy that uses gegene. The more load u put the more passive energy will be drained from the grid in wall, and normal wattmeter will show decrease in power consumption, but it wont be truth cause it doesnt iclude(measures) passive power.
If in factory or house the proportion of passive energy used to active is equal 30% or more believe me that guys from powerplant would appear and put additional passive wattmeter.
The truth for sure is that bifilar pancake or bashar bifilar tesla coil is very efficient coil that has big potential and capacity.
Also using lamps as indicator of efficiency also isnt accurate cause we need to measure it with luxmeter. One person can tell us that 100 watt halogen lamp shines at max power 100 watt cause it looks such for him, but in real it shines at 70 watt.
I am not a person that thinks that OU doesnt exists, i also search a way to achieve the OU but in my opinion gegene may not be OU. If someone has a very advanced watt meter and will use it for gegene and it will indicate still smaller power consumption at input than output so i am for sure wrong.

If mind goes out of the box, everything is possible
Topper
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 05 2013 :  21:08:15  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Topper
Ac power flow has 3 component's
1-active power or real power (P)This is measurede in watt's.
2-Apparent power (S)This is measured in volt and amps (VA)
3-Reactive power (var) This is measured in reactive volt amperes.

Yes,inductive load's can effect the AC sign input and distort it somewhat,but this can be eliminated by using linear cap's to filter any harmonic distortion.As you can see in the schematic below of an induction cooker,we do indeed have those linear cap's to filter out any harmonic's that may distort the input AC wave.So you will find that the watt meter is reading correctly.The induction cooker HF is designed to opperate within the AC half wave(which comes from the FWBR)You can indeed see the 50hz wave with the HF frequency opperating within it.The watt meter will be detecting no distortion,as there isnt any when filtered.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Magneticitist
Senior Member



USA
681 Posts

Posted - April 07 2013 :  00:36:26  Show Profile  Visit Magneticitist's Homepage Send Magneticitist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Tin when making an induction cooker, can you tell me the desired material to make the stove top from? im thinking unless i use the proper material that will cool very fast, the whole thing would be fairly pointless.

[on the gravy train with biscuit wheels]
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 07 2013 :  03:31:37  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If i were to make one,i would use ceramic.The one i have has a glass top.Even after boiling a large pot of water for 10 minutes-you can still hold your hand on the cooktop straight after.It is warm,but not hot enough to burn you.If you had a kevlar sheet between the cooktop and pot,i dont think it would get very warm at all.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Jet
Junior Member



Canada
129 Posts

Posted - April 08 2013 :  15:25:28  Show Profile  Visit Jet's Homepage Send Jet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi All. TM.

Good series, I really enjoy the data shared here.

Just an observation.

@TM, the Tesla Pancake is acting as a transformer. That's a given.
I want to point out the relative efficiency to a regular laminated iron core transfo. First the simplicity of design, the minimal number of turns, lack of metallic core and furthermore the low cost.

This is very important research being made here. I won't go into details here, simply to re-enforce that this coils provides very high efficiency relative to the conventional transfo. It's all based on geometry, or simply how the coil is physically wound.

It is merely a few feet of wires, perhaps, less that 20 feet, it is very cheap, easy to make, has a very high relative Electromagnetic conversion efficiency. Does not require a metal core.

Again, Just putting the emphasis on this amazing coil.
A very important gift form N. Tesla.

Jet
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 08 2013 :  18:40:11  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Jet
I will have to wind a single pancake coil,and see if there is a difference in output against the BPC.
Anyway,here is a video of some scope shots running different loads.


swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Jet
Junior Member



Canada
129 Posts

Posted - April 08 2013 :  20:22:15  Show Profile  Visit Jet's Homepage Send Jet a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@TM, Good, don't let me stop you from your current agenda.
I'm not asking for anything. Your plate is full enough!
I'm just content with what you got to show us.

I'm being passive these days.
Cheers,
Jet
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 09 2013 :  08:25:59  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lol-jet
Hey im happy to try anything you might like to throw my way-as long as my hair dosnt become a chared remains lol.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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PhysicsProf
New Member



USA
6 Posts

Posted - April 09 2013 :  15:51:51  Show Profile Send PhysicsProf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello, everyone. Thanks to Tinman for a great forum opportunity!

Because of the heat generated by the bulbs at high watts, I have gone to a new light box that is in some ways simpler than the aluminum-foil lined cardboard light box I have been using for months. Using now a 22-gallon shiny "garbage can" with lid. It works well, and I've been doing both calibrations (with 200W bulbs) along with some experiments with the Gegene set-up. Learning.

Vid: You must be logged in to see this link.

Description:
quote:
My current replication of the Gegene experiment is shown (google Gegene Naudin), with a Bifilar Pancake Coil (BPC) atop an induction cooktop. BPC output is fed to four 200W incandescent bulbs in the "light box" with lux-meter. Note: I meant to say about 1200 Lux for this particular experiment.
In this way, we have a measure of light output as a function of input power to the induction device. Thus, we can tell when we are making improvements in efficiency.



I'd appreciate pointers on how to match the load properly, and how to build a "better" coil.


Empirically, I find that two 200W bulbs "work better" (more light output per watt into the induction cooktop, 7140 lux for 594W input) than four 200W bulbs (2100 Lux for 690W input). Also, the BPCoil heats up faster with the latter, four bulbs in parallel.
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PhysicsProf
New Member



USA
6 Posts

Posted - April 09 2013 :  15:56:40  Show Profile Send PhysicsProf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, the light output in the light box with straight grid power to the bulbs is higher than what I get from the Gegene so far -- 11,790 Lux at 412W input into two 200W bulbs.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 09 2013 :  18:35:43  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Steve,and welcome aboard.
I am not sure as to why your coil is getting hot at just 594 watts of input power,as i can draw 1200 watts from mine running the 2000 watts of halogens and it only just gets warm?.But when i hook it to the hydroxy cell and draw only 1030 watts,it gets hot very quickly?.Some strange findings so far with this setup.
Thanks for the video aswell,as that is a very simple but effective light box you have there-which we coulod also use as a heat box tester.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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PhysicsProf
New Member



USA
6 Posts

Posted - April 09 2013 :  19:05:48  Show Profile Send PhysicsProf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good points, Tinman - glad to be here.
Strange findings, for sure.

I'm getting my best efficiency (defined as light output vs Pinput) for the Gegene driving just one 200W bulb VERY brightly -- beyond its design no doubt.

On grid, this bulb gives 6310Lux running at 209W. Two 200W bulbs in parallel on grid gives 11630Lux drawing 409 Watts.

Then I hook it up to the coil, for ONE 200W bulb, and get 12000 Lux at approx 440Watts(Input to the induction cooktop), running at a lower setting on the cooktop. I find that encouraging, nothing convincing yet.
The main problem under these conditions is that the cooktop CYCLES on and off every few seconds. Makes it difficult to get reliable readings, not sure the meters are keeping up.

Any ideas of how to get around this problem? do I have to go inside and "defeat the sensors"?

Also, any idea how much power the fan in the cooktop is drawing? perhaps one should correct for that? its probably a small correction.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - April 11 2013 :  04:28:13  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I too have the same problem with the cycling on the low setting's.Anything under setting 6 cycles on my cooktop.I found that my fan is using 9.4 watts of power,not much but enough to tip the scale's.As for stoping the cycling,i think this would be a big task being that it's electronicly controlled-where to start looking on the circuit board.The good thing is that i have noticed is-the heaver the load,the more efficient the cooktop become's.So i would aim for a load that stop's the cycling.

On another note,i am about to build a new pancake coil-but this one is going to be a little different than the BPC-it will be up and running by the weekend(i hope).

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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danoseus
New Member



Czech Republic
39 Posts

Posted - September 10 2013 :  16:54:02  Show Profile Send danoseus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi guys, a lot of ppl claming OU effect with tesla flat coils and induction heater. It look interesting. Does anyone tryd to make closed loop with it?

I have one spare induction cooker, and thniking about some experiments .... any advices?:D.
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TinMan
Advanced Member



4082 Posts

Posted - September 13 2013 :  11:44:08  Show Profile Send TinMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Danoseus
I have not seen anything that seems to show an OU event,or even close-using the induction cook top.
The biggest problem is getting accurate measurement's at such high frequencies.
Also being a quasi resonant circuit,make's it a little harder-it kind of messes with the watt meters power factor a bit.

swim at 90 degrees to the current and gain speed in two directions

skype-thetinman.69
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Kuja9596
New Member



Indonesia
3 Posts

Posted - December 30 2016 :  19:28:20  Show Profile  Send Kuja9596 a Yahoo! Message Send Kuja9596 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a question about this gegene replication video,


He attached an AC motor and a drill to the second tesla pancake coil, my question is, what kind of circuit that located before the drill and motor?. Thank you.
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1047 Posts

Posted - December 31 2016 :  06:29:57  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi kuja
welcome to the IAEC
If you are refering to the circuit board to the left of the heater
i would suspect it to be a bridge rectifer and two
electrolytic capacitors
Reason.... Induction heaters work at very high frequencies
this would be ok for lamps but not universal motors etc
ron
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Kuja9596
New Member



Indonesia
3 Posts

Posted - December 31 2016 :  20:06:25  Show Profile  Send Kuja9596 a Yahoo! Message Send Kuja9596 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you Ron,
If that circuit is a bridge rectifier and 2 electrolytic Caps, would it make it dc?, sorry for my english, english is not my first language. Btw thanks again Ron. Its been a years since i visit this lovely forum again.
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1047 Posts

Posted - December 31 2016 :  20:33:22  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi
Yes it would be direct current
A universal motor will run on either AC or DC
Take care with the working voltage of the caps as
the coil output voltage will be unknown
I would suggest the capacitors have a working voltage of at least 450 volts DC to be safe
Also the use of ultra fast rectifier s may improve performance
BUT PLEASE BE CAREFUL
Happy New Year
ron
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Kuja9596
New Member



Indonesia
3 Posts

Posted - January 01 2017 :  15:16:11  Show Profile  Send Kuja9596 a Yahoo! Message Send Kuja9596 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thank you Ron for the informations.
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ron_o
Moderator



United Kingdom
1047 Posts

Posted - January 01 2017 :  19:34:24  Show Profile Send ron_o a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your welcome , Kuja
Hope your experiments go well
ron
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